tom3

so, I've changed switches a few times, I've just done it again:

every time they burns; this time, one of the springs inside had decided to jump out of its spot and jam the assembly.

on top of that the key cylinder starts to be very picky.

I've already bypassed the key resistor as I have a remote starter.

I'm now thinking about just ditching the whole ignition switch and key and installing a push button to be done with it.

My alarm disables the car (I can't start it with the key if the alarm is on), so theft is not a concern.

I've a few questions:

- what's the intensity going through the switch when it's on?
- what's the intensity going through the starter contacts?
- what would be the best positions for the switches? I want to make sure they don't look 'added' or 'tacky' and I want them out of possible accidental contact. I'm thinking in the ashtray?
- how to remove the steering wheel lock?

tom3

anyone?

Granite00

You're pretty much on your own as far as figuring out how you want to do this. I'm guessing that a 20amp switch and wires are comparable to stock, however, if anything has been added to the circiut, like stereo equippment, etc, you're load may be higher. That may have something to do with why you've gone through three ignition switches. It could also be a poor connection somewhere in the circiut that builds heat in the switch.

The problem here is, just adding a heavier switch isn't really the answer. The rest of the wires and components in the circiut are all related to what's going on. In a perfect world, you should test how many amps are running through the ignition switch, with everything turned on at maximum. Then you have an idea of what kind of power you're trying to work with. Just adding a bigger switch is sort of like just stuffing a big cam into a stock engine and expecting it to work great.

My suggestion is to take a good look at anything that has been added to the car that draws power from the ignition switch. Redo those things to power up whitout running through the ignition switch. You can use relays to accomplish this. It only takes a small amount of power to control a relay. The relay does the work connecting whatever you hook to it to power and it takes all that load out of the circuit that controls it. You asked about the starter. This is a prefect example. Notice they don't run thick heavy battery cables into the car through the dash to the ignition switch for the starter. They run the heavy battery cable to the starter directly. The really small wire hooked to the starter runs all the way to the ignition switch. When you turn the key to the start position, power is sent to that trigger wire on the starter and that little wire controls the biggest electric motor in the car. Think of it as a remote switch that can be setup to power anything.

I hope this sheds some light on things for you.

tom3

I was planning on running a relay under the hood; I don't like the idea of high intensity spliced wires, etc in the passenger compartment.

The problem I can't figure out is why the switch burns:

it burns at the starter contact; and I am not talking about the connector, but literally at the contact point inside the switch. Also it is related to the starter itself, the rest is fine, so it is not the accessories' load causing the issue either.
The only thing that comes to mind that is it takes more work than normal to turn the starter, but this happened with both the cammed 350 and the 383, making this hypothesis unlikely.

Do you know how many amps it takes to power the starter while cranking the engine?
Also, I could never start the car from small(er) cars, when jump starting it. Is it common or an indication that there is a power sink somewhere?
Another thing I'm thinking about is that the starter wire would be fried from the headers and something is sinking current. It's low voltage so it wouldn't arc and it couldn't be a real short as the starter does work, so it'd have to short through something that's pretty high resistance.

Besides that, I'm running out of ideas

95camaroinok

Check the plugs that actually plug into your ignition switch, the contacts tend to wear out easily and tend to heat up. Possibly caused by the first bad switch, now causing a reoccuring issue. I had the same problem with my V6 car, ended up cutting all the connectors off and splicing new plugs on. Havnt had a problem since, and usually by now it would have started messin up again. Also check your grounds, that will also cause things to heat up. Hope you get it figured out cheap/safely.

tom3

they don't look burnt, but you may be right: the first burnt switch may have caused the series of problems.

I've also the key cylinder acting up, that's why I'm thinking of ditching everything and go with an on/off switch and crank push button.

Granite00

Starters on most V8's will draw between 160-220amps, but that's through the battery cables, not the ignition switch. The soleniod is probably less than 10amps, but heat makes resistance go up. As resistance goes up everything has to work harder. The harder everything works, the hotter things get... You can see where this is going. I have seen several poor cranking problems wind up being bad battery cables. The easiest way I have found to test them without real test equippment is a pair of jumper cables. You have crawl under the car and hook the black to the aluminum starter housing. The red to the positive cable hooked to the starter. This can be really tight and sometimes impossible to get connected, but it's worth trying. Pull the cables up to your battery. You need to disable the engine so it won't start. Unplug the ignition coil and all the injectors. Hook the black cable to the neg. battery terminal and the red to the positive. Have a helper crank the engine for 7 or 8 seconds. Once it's cranking, disconnect the black first and pay attention to the sound of the starter and look for some sparking when you disconnect. Sparking means current is passing through your extra cables that your battery cables are not handling. Do the same test with the red cable if you were able to get it hooked up. If somethings wrong, it will show up. If the cables test good under load, then I guess I would ask if the starter is strong enough to do the job.

Oh and yes, a smaller car should be able to jump your car, it just may take a little longer to charge it up initially.

tom3

with a smaller car, the starter starts to turn the engine, but it stops right away, as if the engine was stuck.

so there's definitely something not right and it's been like that for a very long time as well.

maybe the car's due to new sets of wires in many places

Granite00

Yeah, that definitly doesn't seem normal. A smaller car has yes a smaller battery and probably a smaller alternator, but it's all the same 12 volts. Try that test and let us know what happens.

jcurrieirocz

well sence my car just burned up a switch also ive been looking into this topic.
Everyone should hear me out.
Did GM I wonder run too much current thru the starting part of the switch,,,,,,back a few yrs ago my gf had a 95 Grand am that blew a ignition switch and it was a recall that gm replaced the switch and ran a relay to avoid the high current thru the switch. I wonder if this is the same problem here??

If this is the case why cant we just hook a relay into the existing starting wires on the ignition switch???
is anyone willing to be a ginnypig? can anyone draw a diagram for this?? I could if i knew the color of the starting wire on the switch.

shoebox

There are wiring diagrams on my Tech Page.

Injuneer

There are thousands of people here with LT1 4th Gens who have never had a problem with the ignition switch. I doubt that it is not sized to handle the stock amps. The problem for the original lposter would appear to be the current draw ("intensity"?) when he tries to start it. Have to look for possible causes of that high current draw. Start with Shoebox's wiring diagrams, and look for opportunites for excessive current draw.

http://shbox.com/1/ignswschematic.jpg

http://shbox.com/1/ignswschematic.jpg

tom3

I have never found out the problem on my end.

the car has burnt quite a few ignition switches; I have had a remote started on the car for over ten years and the relay does not show any sign of heat (plastic still clear, nothing looking burnt or brittle) so I am guessing it has to do with either the switch itself, or the cable going to it; the rest of the circuit being the same.

Another think I thought about is that my key feels loose and it may possibly not put the switch at the right position which would cause poor contacts and create hot spots.

I am currently disassembling the key cylinder area and I'm hoping to find why it is loose; but I've started to disassemble it over a month ago and haven't gotten around to do more yet, so it might take a while