Hello. My Dad is a huge import fanatic. When I went to him about the idea of buying a Camaro he was... less than supportive. He says they are American cars and are not built as good as foreign cars such as Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

He says the engine, and body are not as safe and long lasting as the foreign companies.

I will be honest, I had an Acura Legend with 252k miles on it and it still ran when I got rid of it. Now my Acura CL-S has 98k miles.

My questions:

How long will the LS1 engine hold up without having to do a rebuild? The SS I am looking at has roughly 61,000 miles on it.

How long will the body last? What materials is the body made out of?

How safe are Camaros in "less than satisfactory" weather conditions?

Thank you for your time and help.

 

The bodies are almost all...well...plastic. There is minimal amounts of metal on the car besides the undercarraige and quarter panels so you won't have to worry to much about rust. As far as LS1 reliability...very reliable. You will easily do 150k without needing anything serious as long as you keep up basic maintenence. The cars go fine in the rain as long as you know how to control it...with over 300 horse power at the wheels it's not exactly hard to break them loose. Conclusion, awesome cars.

 

And the 4th gen fbodies got one of the highest reliability ratings

 

Tell your Dad that the Big 3 have been making cars longer than the import manufacturers and they know a thing or two about how to make a car. People say that Hondas/Toyotas run forever. Do you think they'd run forever without proper maintenace? My Dad used to have an '84 Caprice Estate SW that he finally got rid of in '98 for a new truck. The car had 195,000 family hauling, trip taking, me and my friends driving it down dirt roads when were 16 hard miles when he finally got rid of it. My first car was a Grand Prix that I traded in with 128,000 miles because I wanted my car, and my car has been fine and it has 94,000 miles on it.

I will however say that F-Bodies don't have the best build quality, but for what it is (a poor man's Corvette), I think they're a pretty well-built car.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that a mildly modded LS1 will not need a rebuild until about 200,000 miles. This engine runs VERY strong.

The body will develop creases in the rear quarter panels over time due to the torque the car makes. Subframe connectors are supposed to prevent this, but I added mine too late. The rear quarter panels on F-Bodies are metal and the rest of the body is fiberglass. On SSs and TransAms, the hoods are fiberglass to save weight.

F-Bodies can be very dangerous in bad weather if you don't know what you're doing. Even the stickiest tires are not enough to contain the power the car makes to easily break loose the wheels.

 

I put gas in my car, wash it, and change the fluids. The LS1 is a great engine. I can't speak for the LS1 F-bodies, but I had an LT1 F-body, and it was constant maintenance, electrical gremlins, etc.

Mike

 

Its funny because many "domestic" vehicles use "import" drivetrains; and many "imports" are now made in the USA.

To be technical, a 4th gen Camaro Is an import...from Canada.

Ever notice how there are mechanics who specialize in imports? Do you think they'd be in business if imports were so well manufactured? I drove for Safety Kleen for a while. I was in and out of mechanic shops and dealerships all day. Imports are no more reliable than domestics. Even talking to mechanics in the shops you'll hear this.

As for domestice not being built well...We currently are pushing ~150k miles on our 01 Grand Am GT. People are suprised when they hear how many miles are on it because it still looks and runs very good. We even got over 120k out of a Bonneville we had and we have friends with well over 120k miles on their GM trucks. Its all in maintenance and how its driven. I'm also an agressive driver so my cars get driven hard from time to time, but I'm not racing from every stop either.

Ya, f-bods have their probs, but so do other performance imports. I know STi's have been having trans problems. Get an import that makes anywhere near the power of the LS1 and it loses reliability and gas milage. I work with a guy that blew his new Civic hatch's engine after 6 months. Got another friend with a Civic w/less miles than the GA and it doesn't look anywhere near as well kept. Ya, its 2 years older, but it has almost half the miles. I've also seen a new G35 in a shop getting a new engine.

As for milage, since import loves have the "V8=gas hog" mind set. I just knocked down 22.5 mpg around town. As stated before, I'm not a slow poke either. I've got a bro-n-law that just bought a 4 cyl for "economy" (like any young guy drives economically)and gets 21 mpg. I'm getting 1.5 mpg better w/over twice the displacement. On the highway I've gotten from 27-30 mpg. Know any mildly modded imports that can run 12's, get driven daily, and still get that kind of milage?

Another bonus for domestics. Their parts are usually cheaper.

 

personally i like how people always say that import engines and drivetrans run forever.

but think about it. they are making about 1/3 the hp that the Fbodies make...of course a 4cyl engine making 110hp is gonna run forever, specially when it's barely reved to it's potential.

not to mention how much less stress on the trans and axles with that amount of power compared to a 300hp V8.

i personally had 185K miles on my 87 IROC, no rebuilds. i had to replace the trans, but that's normal considering how much i beat on it.

 

What I have learned is that if you keep it close to stock, the LS1 will last a very long time. If you rag on any car and dont keep up on the routine maintenance you are asking for trouble. Change the oil, filters, fix the trouble codes and you will be fine.

 

Does your Dad realize he is one of the people that are helping kill the big 3 American automakers?? I get so tired of hearing this imports last longer deal. I don't know what caused it, but some people (at least around here) act like they're too *good* to drive an American car. I know it sounds crazy but it's true. Anyways.....I have a 90 RS with 159K mikles, and the valve covers have never been pulled. This thing is driven everyday, and still runs strong. I have an LT1 with 116K that till runs strong and has been super reliable. Maintenance is the key, no matter what you drive. If you're the one spending the $$$, get the Camaro, regardless of what anyone says. You won't be sorry, and if you take care of it you will have a rare car before you know it!

 

Ever drive around and notice how many **** mobiles are on the roads? Cars that are beat to hell, but people still drive them? Look again at the nameplate. It's probably a GM or Ford.

Still running.

 

Good point.

 

I had 2 buddies in highschool that both drove 1990 Acura Integras (this was around ~1999/2000, so they were ~10 year old cars). One of them had a little higher mileage, but BOTH of them were beginning to rust out on the EXTERIOR of the body, in particular over the back wheels, just below the tail-lights, the lip of the trunk lids, bottoms of doors, and I think even around the keyholes on the doors there were little bubbles beginning to show. Geez, that's real "great" long-lasting "quality" if you ask me. At the time I was driving my '81 Z28, which had been re-painted (with the required body work) at the time, so I can't really compare that car, because now we're talking about a car that's twice as old again.

OK, tell me honestly, how many 4th-gen F-bodies, or even newer style Cavaliers/Sunfires ('95+) that you see on the roads rusted out??? NONE. Pre-'94, the Cavaliers were crap. 3rd-gen F-bodies, same thing, the bodies would rust out bad, but the newer generation GM's have been using galvanized body panels (wherever they're metal) and don't rust out the same as they used to. One of my friends right now has a '97 Z28 that has a dent just behind the driver's door ... the paint is cracked and there is bare metal exposed. It's been this way for 3 or 4 years he says, and it's still not begun to rust!

As far as engine reliability of the LS1? Pretty damn good if you ask me, considering they're a ~350 HP engine! Please find me ANY vehicle (I don't care which brand) that makes over ~300 HP that will last any longer than an LS1, without requiring regular ROUTINE maintenance? Even a POS 4-banger requires regular oil changes and crap, so what's the difference? And considering that the LS1 makes ~3 times the power, yet doesn't get much worse (if at all) mileage than the 4-banger, then why not go for it?

I love my LS1. I wouldn't trade this car in for anything other than a Corvette at this point!!! Imports can kiss my .....

BTW: I don't consider a Canadian built car to be an import either.

 

Originally posted by CapN Pete:

BTW: I don't consider a Canadian built car to be an import either.


I agree.

 

Did you notice where the good Capn lives?

 

As General Bull Moose goes, so goes the country! (Reference to Lil' Abner. GM is General Bull Moose.) Geez, have some pride and patriotism once in a while. Buy American.

I have had many American cars and each was excellent. My last F-Body, an 82 Camaro Z28, was running strong after 200K miles when I sold it last summer. Now I have a 98 Camaro Z28 which I bought with 90K miles on it and I didn't even blink an eye at the milage. The only reason I upgraded was because I wanted a 350 instead of the little 305. And I also wanted something that looked a little newer.

Buy American. When possible buy from the little guy instead of our corporate masters. And for God's sake don't buy anything from a store that won't say "Merry Christmas".