instead of dumping small amounts of cash into my car at frequent intervals.... a cam here, exhaust there, a new intake there, etc.. I was thinking of saving up some cash and dumping it into either a supercharger or a turbo kit for my ls1. From what I understand the turbo gives your engine a lot more boost in higher RPM's, and the supercharger would provide more power at lower rpm's. As far as performance is concerned, there are substantial increases either way, so that would not be too much of a concern.
I am a daily driver with my camaro, so I don't want something that is going to destroy my engine just by driving around. On the other hand I do want more respectable 1/4 mile times (MINIMUM of low 12's, preferably in the mid 11's), and more power. Are the stock ls1 pushrods, etc enough to handle this kind of boost, without internal dammage or severly limiting the life of the engine? Is it worth the money to go for one of these two options rather then to keep performing small mods as mentioned above? and if you would recomend this, which would you choose, the turbo or the supercharger, and why?
Please post if you have any first hand experience because I am seriously considering this and I want to make the correct decision. thanks!
-Dave

 

If all you want is low 12's high 11's on a street-drivable car then I'd suggest nitrous or a head/cam package.With some drag radials either should get you the times your looking for.A supercharger and a turbo are both going to play havoc with your motor.Our cars come with high compression which HATES boost.So unless you do a rebuild or run really low boost,you'll shorten the life of the motor.I think with all the bolt-on's,headers,and a head/cam that you should easily be able to run 11's with good driving and some traction.Good luck.
Kevin

 

First off - I am not a big fan of Boost on stock LS1 engines. These motors have Hyperutenic (sp) pistons from the factory , which is a fancy way of saying "cast pistons" . They also do not have very good ring packs. Any real amount of boost on these motors tends to damage pistons or blow the rings fairly quickly.
LS1 engines also have so much compression from the factory (~10-1) that you really can't run all that much boost on pump gas.
If you must go with a boost adder, do a supercharger, not a turbo. I have done an Incon Twin turbo setup, and its such a nightmare... you wouldn't belive. Whats worse is the power output was really no better than the supercharged cars I have done.
This whole thread is leading up to my suggestion to do a head/cam/header package. These are still totally driveable, smogable, and are pretty much invisable to the untrained eye. I have seen gains of 95+ horsepower on some cars.

 

Traction ... Traction ... Traction ... the name of the game with these cars is traction. And the words traction and turbo/supercharged don't belong in the same sentence with daily driver/street driven.

I've only seen one turbo charged 4th gen at our track that is respectable and it is trailered in. Everything else that was driven in has on occasion hit the mid to low 11s ... but over half the time all they can pull is something in the low to mid 13s ... traction, they spin off the line, they spin on the shift, they get sideways and have to peddle ... nothing like 13.5@ 122 mph 3.2 60' time slip and lot's of them.

As far as low 12s ... heck I haven't even been inside the engine yet ... all bolt on and I'll run low 12s on 1.75 or better 60's all nite.

And there's a lot of cammed cars that run in the 10s with a 150 shot.

Good Luck

 

You've got it backwards. Turbos will provide boost much more quickly than a centrifugal blower will, and can ultimately make more power.

However, the packaging nightmare that most turbo kits are make it worth your while just to buy the blower.

I agree with the above opinion that a stock LS1 is not going to live a long and happy life under boost. 10:1 compression doesn't leave much room for tuning errors, and you risk blowing a ring land. I witnessed a stock LS1 w/vortech S trim pull the top ring lands right off of 3 pistons. Not pretty, or cheap to repair.

IMO, if all you want is low 12s/high 11s, just build the motor n/a. Do a heads/cam swap with a full exhaust, and you'll hit your goal.

 

thanks a lot for all of your input. what do you think a good heads/cam setup would be? I am thinking with a full exhaust, heads, cam, intake I would be looking at around a 100hp increase.. or am I off a bit..?

 

2k2z28, not trying to jump on your post here but im thinking of a heads/cam package myself. hoping to have 400 to 450 rear wheel on a daily driver. i want it to pass emissions and i intend to keep the car for a VERY long time. so hp can be sacrificed for longevity of the engine.

what would you guys recomend as far as frame reinforcement and rear ends with the head/cam packages?

i hope that fits in with your questions. thanks all .

 

2k2z28:
You are thinking along the right track. As for costs, here is what my shop charges:
* $2800 for CNC stage III heads assembled w/big valves ect...
* $300-$395 cam (depending on which one)
* $699.00 JBA shorty headers
* ~$250 install kit (gaskets ect...)
* $675 Corsa Catback Exhaust
Labor is pretty major, in the neighborhood of 35 hours to do it right.
martinss01
You are smart to think about chassis strength. I would look into a Moser 12-bolt rearend. These are absolutely indestructable, and well worth the investment.
For subframe connectors, I have never found a better one than Global West's ( www.globalwest.net ). They tuck up under the car really well and really help stiffen up the chassis. Stay away from bolt-in subframe connectors in general
I have had good luck with the Edelbrock STB, and it can be had for less than $125. If you want somthing prettier the Hotchkis works well.

 

Lowend...

why would you say stage 3 heads for him...they are custom bore heads only. and shorty headers? and moser 12-bolt indestructable? i hate to flame ya man, but you are throwing around some misinformation here. 12-bolts are hardly indestructable and shorty headers for a head and cammed car is VERY restrictive. longtubes are the ONLY way to go on our cars. and what is so bad about bolt-in subframes?

 

Supersport
Obviously different companies call their heads by different names - I don't know which company you are going off for definitions, but its not mine. Our Stage III's have full porting, big valves, custom springs (matched to cam) so-on so-forth, they flow ~315cfm intake.
The shorty headers have always worked great for us on street cars. Yes there is a little (maybe 10HP) more power to be had from a Long Tube header over a shorty, but IMHO what you lose in ground clearance isn't worth it on a street car.
I have NEVER seen a broken Moser 12-bolt.... come to think I have never heard a first-hand story of a broken Moser 12-bolt.
The reason you don't want bolt-in SFC's is that over time the holes will elongate and allow play in the chassis (I have even seen some cars SFC's rip out, albeit not a 4th gen yet ). You don't see anyone serious running a bolt-in rollcage, why would SFC's be any different.

 

ok, to start your header argument is wrong...period. to say that longtubes give very little gain over shorty headers on a head and cammed car is absurd. if your "shop" knows anything about our cars, they will know that longtubes are the only way to go. as far as ground clearance...hookers and flp's (just to name 2) compromise to clearance issues. i have the hookers myself and have seen cars with the flp's and know that the clearance is not a problem whatsoever. as far as never seeing a moser 12-bolt broken i will say it may not happen often in cars with under about 600rwhp...but above that on 6-speed cars ive seen it happen. to have a blown car and nitrous launch is very hard on a rear and under those loads it can snap. honestly though...to say that something is indestructable is really stretching the truth. as far as your heads...maybe you do things differently than the shops i have seen, so i dont have anything to say for that.

 

i must have been drunk writing that sentence...it should read have no clearance issues.

 

First off, I'm not taking offense to this discussion... lets continue this discourse.
I've heard this as the standard line, but honesly... show me the dyno test results. I haven't seen a head to head comparison, but I can tell you that with out chassis dyno I haven't seen a major difference in power form shortys to long tubes - Now mind you this is on different cars (not a scientific test so to speak). Our cam/head/shorty header cars generally pull ~390-410RWHP... thats pretty much in line with what most the RWHP #'s longtube/cam/head cars I have seen other people post.

 

as far as actual dyno graphs...i dont have them. wish i did...however, i have seen plenty of LS1's with heads/cam dyno 430+ at the wheels and every single one of them as always had longtubes.it only makes sense for our cars. i really dont know what else to type...

 

Lets also keep in mind that my shop's cars also need to pass smog... so we are generally using very small cams... the most common is the CompCams Stage II.
I have seen 430 HP from LS1 head/cam/header cars, but its generally in strokers, with bigger cams.
BTW, has FLP gotten a CARB # for their headers yet? Last I checked they were using 02 simulators.