AI200cc stock bottom end dyno results, 429rwhp with a miss
01-04-2008, 05:25 PM
#151
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01-04-2008, 05:37 PM
#152
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Trick flow and GM guide plates are the correct ones to buy and supposed to work with LT1 heads. That doesn't mean the rockers will all line up correctly due to the way LT1 guides are machined/installed at GM. Just look at you rocker in that pic.
Most people use them and have no problems. It is not a variance in the guideplates from set to set. It is a variance in the LT1 heads and guides from set to set.
If the GM/Trick flow guide plates do not align ALL of the rockers correctly, the only way to get things exact is with the Isky adjustables and go through the hell of doing it.
Some cars will always be faster than others with the same work done. Your car was hauling *** with the GM 846, BRE cam, etc, and always ren better than most with the same mods. Starting with a "good" bottom end with only .020 deck ht can be part of it as opposed to some at .025-.035 and somke can be your exhaust, etc but for what ever reason, some cars are always fast (even in stock form) compared to others with the same gear/mods.
Firt you mentioned the LE heads were worth 4 tenths and 4 MPH when installed but now you say they gained you nothing or slowed you down.
First you said you did not check PR length on the LE heads and just used what you had and then you said you did check PR length (although that will not fix the rocker sitting on the valve wrong from side to side).
Did you ever compare the guide plates that were worn and see if those guides were toast also.
Regardless, it matters very little now anyway, you sem happy with the results of your new set up and learned alot about rocker/PR geometry as shown on your pohoto bucket.
I just found the post and wnated to post some info from the other point of view. As you know, there are 3 sides to every story regardless of how unbiased both of us feel we are when telling it. I am a very level headed person that wanted my side heard to balance the post out.
I really feel that you believe you did not damage the guides however right/wrong you are.
I really believe that you destroyed the guides and I did pay shipping both ways ($120) to look them over and have my machinist look them over to come to the same conclusion. I saw the same thing I was expecting before you shipped them but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and it see if there was anything done that would cause this.
Lloyd
Most people use them and have no problems. It is not a variance in the guideplates from set to set. It is a variance in the LT1 heads and guides from set to set.
If the GM/Trick flow guide plates do not align ALL of the rockers correctly, the only way to get things exact is with the Isky adjustables and go through the hell of doing it.
Some cars will always be faster than others with the same work done. Your car was hauling *** with the GM 846, BRE cam, etc, and always ren better than most with the same mods. Starting with a "good" bottom end with only .020 deck ht can be part of it as opposed to some at .025-.035 and somke can be your exhaust, etc but for what ever reason, some cars are always fast (even in stock form) compared to others with the same gear/mods.
Firt you mentioned the LE heads were worth 4 tenths and 4 MPH when installed but now you say they gained you nothing or slowed you down.
First you said you did not check PR length on the LE heads and just used what you had and then you said you did check PR length (although that will not fix the rocker sitting on the valve wrong from side to side).
Did you ever compare the guide plates that were worn and see if those guides were toast also.
Regardless, it matters very little now anyway, you sem happy with the results of your new set up and learned alot about rocker/PR geometry as shown on your pohoto bucket.
I just found the post and wnated to post some info from the other point of view. As you know, there are 3 sides to every story regardless of how unbiased both of us feel we are when telling it. I am a very level headed person that wanted my side heard to balance the post out.
I really feel that you believe you did not damage the guides however right/wrong you are.
I really believe that you destroyed the guides and I did pay shipping both ways ($120) to look them over and have my machinist look them over to come to the same conclusion. I saw the same thing I was expecting before you shipped them but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and it see if there was anything done that would cause this.
Lloyd
Either way I'm done arguing. It's obvious neither of us is going to change their views on what happened in the past and it's time to move forward.
01-04-2008, 05:45 PM
#153
as much as i would like to see a real world un biased comparason between company a and company l i really believe there are too many inconsistancies in this case to use it
once again speed_demon great numbers, glad you got the car up and running, and good luck with it man
and for the record i am very happy with my heads from lloyd, the customer support was great and he helped me out with every question i had, even after the purchase. this summer i will get the car on the dyno and to the track. again, thank you lloyd for a great set of heads and all the help getting it together
once again speed_demon great numbers, glad you got the car up and running, and good luck with it man
and for the record i am very happy with my heads from lloyd, the customer support was great and he helped me out with every question i had, even after the purchase. this summer i will get the car on the dyno and to the track. again, thank you lloyd for a great set of heads and all the help getting it together
01-04-2008, 05:46 PM
#154
Yes I did check the guides where the guideplates had the wear. The guideplates that were just starting to wear were all on the same side, the front 3 cylinders on the passenger side. The guides with the worste amount of wear and the guideplates that showed no signs of wear at all.
01-04-2008, 06:01 PM
#155
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Location: Ocala, Florida
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as much as i would like to see a real world un biased comparason between company a and company l i really believe there are too many inconsistancies in this case to use it
once again speed_demon great numbers, glad you got the car up and running, and good luck with it man
and for the record i am very happy with my heads from lloyd, the customer support was great and he helped me out with every question i had, even after the purchase. this summer i will get the car on the dyno and to the track. again, thank you lloyd for a great set of heads and all the help getting it together
once again speed_demon great numbers, glad you got the car up and running, and good luck with it man
and for the record i am very happy with my heads from lloyd, the customer support was great and he helped me out with every question i had, even after the purchase. this summer i will get the car on the dyno and to the track. again, thank you lloyd for a great set of heads and all the help getting it together
01-04-2008, 06:03 PM
#156
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If spring rates are not the same you have no business putting them on your heads. Installed height should be exactly the same with every valve. That height is measured from the seat to the retainer. Shims are used to make up for the difference.
01-04-2008, 06:08 PM
#157
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01-04-2008, 06:12 PM
#158
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Was a time when Rob here was happy with his LE heads too.
Sometimes happy customers just means customers don't know any better.
I am sure every one of us has bought something and thought it great and later been forced to reevaluate that opinion. Most recently for me a year ago I was saying the GMPP guideplates were good, today the car has Isky adjustables and I wont recommend the GMPP guideplates anymore. They never really lined up well and began to wear.
Sometimes happy customers just means customers don't know any better.
I am sure every one of us has bought something and thought it great and later been forced to reevaluate that opinion. Most recently for me a year ago I was saying the GMPP guideplates were good, today the car has Isky adjustables and I wont recommend the GMPP guideplates anymore. They never really lined up well and began to wear.
01-04-2008, 07:08 PM
#159
What inconsistencies? Everyone was wanting an LE vs AI comparison for years and now they finally get one people start trying to discredit me since they want to believe they have the best heads out there. If anything my new combo is at a disadvantage since since I'm running a stock unported intake manifold and I'm also running thicker oil. And my old guides weren't worn, they were BROKEN. theres a big difference.
and again i'll ask what oil were you runing then and now, exactly.
01-04-2008, 07:49 PM
#160
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01-04-2008, 07:55 PM
#161
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BTW I did have my old LE2 heads flowed. I wonder if this had anything to do with why I gained power? I'm sure the exhaust flow inconsistency is considered normal??? Not to mention the low flow #'s, expecially for a huge port. I wasn't going to post these, but considering everyone thinks they are gods gift heres a little wakeup call. Keep in mind the graphs go up to .800 lift so look at .600 and below.
01-04-2008, 09:27 PM
#162
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You are correct, but I have seen springs that were not close enough and there was plenty of room to play before coil bind. So it was decided to make the open and closed pressures as close as possible. Comp and some of it's suppliers aren't exactly up to stuff with quality control.
01-04-2008, 09:28 PM
#163
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Not to be a dick or anything, but when dealing with used production heads that have had work done to them, i.e. valve job, there is no way to get all the installed heights the same. And the shims only come in increments of .015 so if you key up and there's a variance to your ideal installed height there's not much to do. You can play with locator thickness but that only helps a little. Also all springs don't have the same spring rates at a given height, they are all within a tolerance. That's why you pay a lot extra when you use an Isky Tool Room spring because the quality and consitancy of the spring versus a mass produced spring like Comp.
01-04-2008, 09:55 PM
#164
01-04-2008, 10:07 PM
#165
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Yeah it would be thinner if it was at 0 degrees celcius. But at operating temperature its thicker, hence the 40 weight. You guys really need to get a clue before you make yourselves look like asses.