AI200cc stock bottom end dyno results, 429rwhp with a miss
01-05-2008, 10:04 AM
#181
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
you are kidding right, the oil is 40 at 0 degrees and 0 at operating temp. go ahead and look it up
EDIT: here is a little reading material for ya
http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/art...=ccr20040601ov
http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica..._viscosity.htm
EDIT: here is a little reading material for ya
http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/art...=ccr20040601ov
http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica..._viscosity.htm
This allows a 10W40 oil to flow like a 10W at cold temperatures and a 40W at higher temperatures.
I actually have an understanding of this, you don't. The oil does not actually thicken what they do is resist thinning from the heat, at operating temperature a 10w-40 is similar viscosity to what a straight 40weight oil would be.
Those of you who keep blaming the cracked guides on geometry
, bad geometry absolutely will cause excessive wear we agree there, I really do not see it cracking guides though.Rob was also not the only one too reports significant problems this year. One guy on the Impala board had problems that were so bad he backed out of selling them because his conscience wouldn't allow it.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=183780
I know I am not the only one who has hear tales of issues that go untold on forum because Lloyd and his cronies go on the attack like this.
What ever happened too this?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=76
You started to realize something and then pride took over and you went back to blindly defending your decision.
Far as advantaged or disadvantages about oil, weights, I think we all know it is a miniscule difference, but you guys are latching onto near meaningless things too like the oilpan and ignoring things like the intake. All a matter of picking and choosing what information supports your opinions.
The stock LT1 pan and windage tray are pretty good for a stock stroke motor. Canton may be better in cornering racing, but not the dyno. Oil is not sloshing up out of the sump to cause issues when the car is stationary on the dyno.
01-05-2008, 10:12 AM
#182
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Carol Stream, Il.
Posts: 3,557
It's in reference to anyone that wants to speak on a subject that they have no first hand knowledge of because they don't bring anything to the table.
I don't think this is history in the making either just because this is the first person to have both products on the same car doesn't mean it's a fair comparison. Only fair way to compare head work would be to use the same cam and swap heads. Yes he got higher numbers with AI, good for him, but that doesn't mean automatically that AI is better, maybe to you it does, but not to the other 95% of this board.
I don't think this is history in the making either just because this is the first person to have both products on the same car doesn't mean it's a fair comparison. Only fair way to compare head work would be to use the same cam and swap heads. Yes he got higher numbers with AI, good for him, but that doesn't mean automatically that AI is better, maybe to you it does, but not to the other 95% of this board.
And this has been said many a time, AI rules and LE is behind. But yet this only comes from a few members, what's with that? How many times have we seen cudos to AI from LE owners and other members. But do the few (and you know who you are) pass the same credit onto LE?
01-05-2008, 11:02 AM
#183
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
01-05-2008, 11:07 AM
#184
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Jupiter (NPB), Fl
Posts: 3,852
I've had plenty of AI gives me kudos over my track #'s.
They don't give kudos to the guys running 114 traps though, and I don't either.
I've also seen too many "400rwhp" cars going ridiculously slow at the track, and it's turned into a big joke as to what HP is needed to run what.
I don't worship the dyno, speeddemon knows (we speak often) that nothing really matters in the end but what he traps.
01-05-2008, 11:08 AM
#185
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
And to that statement I would like to add, if the LE bashers don't mind, HOW ABOUT SOME TRACK #s? I'm happy that demon is happy, but why all of a sudden are dyno #s the end all to the never ending LE against AI?
And this has been said many a time, AI rules and LE is behind. But yet this only comes from a few members, what's with that? How many times have we seen cudos to AI from LE owners and other members. But do the few (and you know who you are) pass the same credit onto LE?
And this has been said many a time, AI rules and LE is behind. But yet this only comes from a few members, what's with that? How many times have we seen cudos to AI from LE owners and other members. But do the few (and you know who you are) pass the same credit onto LE?
01-05-2008, 11:14 AM
#186
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mobile, Ala..USA
Posts: 1,935
Go too your Valvoline link and read the Multigrade paragraph
Maybe you should have read it before you posted.
I actually have an understanding of this, you don't. The oil does not actually thicken what they do is resist thinning from the heat, at operating temperature a 10w-40 is similar viscosity to what a straight 40weight oil would be.
Those of you who keep blaming the cracked guides on geometry, bad geometry absolutely will cause excessive wear we agree there, I really do not see it cracking guides though.
Rob was also not the only one too reports significant problems this year. One guy on the Impala board had problems that were so bad he backed out of selling them because his conscience wouldn't allow it.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=183780
I know I am not the only one who has hear tales of issues that go untold on forum because Lloyd and his cronies go on the attack like this.
What ever happened too this?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=76
You started to realize something and then pride took over and you went back to blindly defending your decision.
Far as advantaged or disadvantages about oil, weights, I think we all know it is a miniscule difference, but you guys are latching onto near meaningless things too like the oilpan and ignoring things like the intake. All a matter of picking and choosing what information supports your opinions.
The stock LT1 pan and windage tray are pretty good for a stock stroke motor. Canton may be better in cornering racing, but not the dyno. Oil is not sloshing up out of the sump to cause issues when the car is stationary on the dyno.
Maybe you should have read it before you posted.
I actually have an understanding of this, you don't. The oil does not actually thicken what they do is resist thinning from the heat, at operating temperature a 10w-40 is similar viscosity to what a straight 40weight oil would be.
Those of you who keep blaming the cracked guides on geometry
, bad geometry absolutely will cause excessive wear we agree there, I really do not see it cracking guides though.Rob was also not the only one too reports significant problems this year. One guy on the Impala board had problems that were so bad he backed out of selling them because his conscience wouldn't allow it.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=183780
I know I am not the only one who has hear tales of issues that go untold on forum because Lloyd and his cronies go on the attack like this.
What ever happened too this?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=76
You started to realize something and then pride took over and you went back to blindly defending your decision.
Far as advantaged or disadvantages about oil, weights, I think we all know it is a miniscule difference, but you guys are latching onto near meaningless things too like the oilpan and ignoring things like the intake. All a matter of picking and choosing what information supports your opinions.
The stock LT1 pan and windage tray are pretty good for a stock stroke motor. Canton may be better in cornering racing, but not the dyno. Oil is not sloshing up out of the sump to cause issues when the car is stationary on the dyno.
I agree with you on ALOT of things...but....
If bad geometry doesnt cause broken guides, what EXACTLY does?
The guy in the first link looks like a shyster that backed up to save his *** from a lawsuit.
The guy in the second link or post looks like he needs a "driver" mod, dont blame the heads and cam because you cant drive for ****. Dont be a p*ssy, put a gear in it and drive the bitch like its a rental car.
David
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 01-05-2008 at 11:18 AM.
01-05-2008, 11:18 AM
#187
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
I've had plenty of AI gives me kudos over my track #'s.
They don't give kudos to the guys running 114 traps though, and I don't either.
I've also seen too many "400rwhp" cars going ridiculously slow at the track, and it's turned into a big joke as to what HP is needed to run what.
I don't worship the dyno, speeddemon knows (we speak often) that nothing really matters in the end but what he traps.
They don't give kudos to the guys running 114 traps though, and I don't either.
I've also seen too many "400rwhp" cars going ridiculously slow at the track, and it's turned into a big joke as to what HP is needed to run what.
I don't worship the dyno, speeddemon knows (we speak often) that nothing really matters in the end but what he traps.
This is true - I give props to good results no matter who the product is from.
01-05-2008, 11:22 AM
#188
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mobile, Ala..USA
Posts: 1,935
Dyno numbers dont mean D!CK, there are guys on here and LS1tech that make less power than me on a dyno and go quicker. Non lock up converters, different rear ends, slicks vs radials, weight of car, driver etc etc.
My car would make 510+ to the wheels with a six speed, dont mean it will go quicker. Bets are it would loose et over my stalled auto.
David
My car would make 510+ to the wheels with a six speed, dont mean it will go quicker. Bets are it would loose et over my stalled auto.
David
01-05-2008, 11:27 AM
#189
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
Dyno numbers dont mean D!CK, there are guys on here and LS1tech that make less power than me on a dyno and go quicker. Non lock up converters, different rear ends, slicks vs radials, weight of car, driver etc etc.
My car would make 510+ to the wheels with a six speed, dont mean it will go quicker. Bets are it would loose et over my stalled auto.
David
My car would make 510+ to the wheels with a six speed, dont mean it will go quicker. Bets are it would loose et over my stalled auto.
David
01-05-2008, 11:43 AM
#190
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lantana, TX
Posts: 1,872
No, but I do know that there are only a few members on this board that bash LE every chance they get so I estimated that if you guys were removed then the other 95% of the members here would congratulate SD on his numbers and wish him well with his new engine that he has worked very hard to put together, which they have.
Why must everything be confrontational with you? Do you think continually attacking other members and being confrontational with them is not going to change their opinions or views on an issue? Why do you feel it necessary to try and verbally beat everyone into submission?
Why must everything be confrontational with you? Do you think continually attacking other members and being confrontational with them is not going to change their opinions or views on an issue? Why do you feel it necessary to try and verbally beat everyone into submission?
01-05-2008, 12:02 PM
#191
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
David, the guy in the first link was an avid LE supporter for a couple years, then had problems with just 3000miles on the heads, spent $600 repairing them so they are runable but regretted spending the money on the repair because he still felt they were no good and backed out of the sale. He also refused to instal BRE cams because he felt they were too agressive, he was running a 503.
Had he tried to sell them broken then I would have agreed with the shyster comment.
On street cars milage is another consideration Frank put on 3000 miles in like 2 years, I have 15-16K miles on my package in a year and a half, only problem was GMPP guideplates began to wear, so I went Isky adjustable.
The pushrods were off what .050, that causes were not breakage, I don't know how far off they would have to be to break things all I know is that if .050 was enough we would see a lot more broken guides than we do.
My take on why the LE and customers pop in with kudos for AI customers is just to be seen, don't want to let the results speak have to get their 15 second commercial in as well.
This thread is a perfect example of why you do not see many comparisons, it is not that they are not happening, I am aware of several guys who sold off LE stuff to buy AI in the last year, they just don't post about it because of stuff like this.
The guides broke because the liners were not properly machined and installed, depends how you look at it if you want to blame Lloyd for that, it is HIS product but on the otherhand he does not do his own machining, he farms that out and is open and honest about it. The damage was done by the machine shop, but again it is Lloyd putting his name on the product.
Had he tried to sell them broken then I would have agreed with the shyster comment.
On street cars milage is another consideration Frank put on 3000 miles in like 2 years, I have 15-16K miles on my package in a year and a half, only problem was GMPP guideplates began to wear, so I went Isky adjustable.
The pushrods were off what .050, that causes were not breakage, I don't know how far off they would have to be to break things all I know is that if .050 was enough we would see a lot more broken guides than we do.
My take on why the LE and customers pop in with kudos for AI customers is just to be seen, don't want to let the results speak have to get their 15 second commercial in as well.
This thread is a perfect example of why you do not see many comparisons, it is not that they are not happening, I am aware of several guys who sold off LE stuff to buy AI in the last year, they just don't post about it because of stuff like this.
The guides broke because the liners were not properly machined and installed, depends how you look at it if you want to blame Lloyd for that, it is HIS product but on the otherhand he does not do his own machining, he farms that out and is open and honest about it. The damage was done by the machine shop, but again it is Lloyd putting his name on the product.
01-05-2008, 12:05 PM
#192
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Detroit area
Posts: 1,781
I'll run all a you guys! I am happy with my set-up.ported and polished by me!Nothin else matters.I think everyone got the point of all this,let them decide.I personally dont care for mud slinging.You see enough in politics.Someone made a mistake,say it and please dont rehash it over and over.Continue on...
Last edited by joeSS97; 01-05-2008 at 12:15 PM.
01-05-2008, 12:19 PM
#193
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
No, but I do know that there are only a few members on this board that bash LE every chance they get so I estimated that if you guys were removed then the other 95% of the members here would congratulate SD on his numbers and wish him well with his new engine that he has worked very hard to put together, which they have.
Why must everything be confrontational with you? Do you think continually attacking other members and being confrontational with them is not going to change their opinions or views on an issue? Why do you feel it necessary to try and verbally beat everyone into submission?
Why must everything be confrontational with you? Do you think continually attacking other members and being confrontational with them is not going to change their opinions or views on an issue? Why do you feel it necessary to try and verbally beat everyone into submission?
I'm continually attacking other members?
You're joking again. JasonD is watching these threads constantly, and if that were true I'd be on permanent vacation like your boy too. My only point in these threads is caveat emptor. You don't like the message, put me on your ignore list too.
01-05-2008, 12:29 PM
#194
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
I'm not saying compare the cars...... I'm saying compare the engines....
They all have to run stock compressin...no way around that. They have to run a 174 cc intake runner, no way around that either. They have to run a stock lift camshaft, but any duration. Stock unported intake...no way around that. 24# injectors...no way around that. Stock untouched TB..no way around that.
All this is checked too......no look how many advantages you have on something with no limits....Just look at the engine itself. Now most stockers run a 200r trans.....a 6sp is going to get more power to the wheels. LT1's can run alot of compression and still run pump gas.
They all have to run stock compressin...no way around that. They have to run a 174 cc intake runner, no way around that either. They have to run a stock lift camshaft, but any duration. Stock unported intake...no way around that. 24# injectors...no way around that. Stock untouched TB..no way around that.
All this is checked too......no look how many advantages you have on something with no limits....Just look at the engine itself. Now most stockers run a 200r trans.....a 6sp is going to get more power to the wheels. LT1's can run alot of compression and still run pump gas.
01-05-2008, 01:23 PM
#195
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Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 3,144
It's in reference to anyone that wants to speak on a subject that they have no first hand knowledge of because they don't bring anything to the table.
I don't think this is history in the making either just because this is the first person to have both products on the same car doesn't mean it's a fair comparison. Only fair way to compare head work would be to use the same cam and swap heads. Yes he got higher numbers with AI, good for him, but that doesn't mean automatically that AI is better, maybe to you it does, but not to the other 95% of this board.
I don't think this is history in the making either just because this is the first person to have both products on the same car doesn't mean it's a fair comparison. Only fair way to compare head work would be to use the same cam and swap heads. Yes he got higher numbers with AI, good for him, but that doesn't mean automatically that AI is better, maybe to you it does, but not to the other 95% of this board.
You've been here 4 years. I've been here ten. As stated this is the first time I've read where another member has installed two different sets of heads from two different popular companies w/in a years time. If you want to excuse the numbers on a technicality then by all means, knock yourself out, but it's the closest real world comparo for those who want to. Overton and LE used to deal with each other. Doubt Overton changed his profiles once LE went with Bret.
It'll be interesting to see track numbers. It'll also be interesting to see what those say who are sensitive to this comparo if the AI combo doesn't perform as well.
So... do you have anything else to "bring to the table" other than whining about how this "comparison" should be handled?