MentalCaseOne

**** i would be happy knowing the stage 1 can be upgraded to a stage 2 when the parts become avail....if thats the case ill buy one tomorrow...****


Thats what I am talking about....... read my post again... I said I would call it an option... cause that would give people an option and an incentive to keep buying the delteq stage one at this point.


Marvin

Pasky

I heard somewhere that the optical unit is useless after 7000 rpms....that may be why.

97FormulaWS-6

The information I can release from what I know from the engineer building the Delteq units...

Stage 2 is more like another module to go with the stage 1 or with the LTCC setup. Basically it's a replacement to the optical portion of the Optispark with better reliability and access. Stage 1 or a LTCC setup will be required for the stage 2 portion.

It's not like it's a full upgrade of the Stage 1, it's just another part, replacing the Opti's Optical portion so the entire opti can be remove from the car; and not using the optical portion like the stg 1 does.

It is in prototype stage now but there are some concerns that are being worked out...

This is all I can talk about, I've sworn to not say any true "insider" information regarding this design. I do know he is shooting for a early '05 release, but as any engineer knows things can and do delay releases when you are shooting for a truly good product.

Tom Piper

The stage-II setup will have to faithfully reproduce the low-resolution and high-resolution pulses that the GM ECM expects. These pulses are used by the ECM for injector pulse timing and ignition timing.

Supposedly, the Delteq, as it exists now, does not change the ignition timing from what the ECM sends out to it. The Delteq box, using the low-res pulse from the Opti-Spark, just "enables" the correct ignition coil in the coil-pak for the ECM ignition pulse to fire.
And, since the Northstar system, which is the basis of the Delteq, is a "waste spark" system, it doesn't need to know camshaft position -- it only needs to know crankshaft position.
The stage-II system, since it replaces the optical section, will have to compute the camshaft position for the ECM.

I've heard there is possibly an add-on module going to be developed for the Delteq that will allow rev-limiting and retard. With retard, the Delteq will have modify the ECM spark timing signal.

When designing the Stage-II, it is difficult making it something that the average shade-tree mechanic can install and still make it affordable -- therefore, profitable.


Tom Piper

simple

how is that possible, they gonna supply new timing covers with it also?

i still cant wait to see how they overcome the opti issue tho

Gimpster

Add me to the list of people not purchasing a stage1 until stage2 info is more precise and official. If I'm going to bother removing the opti (on my 2nd, still going strong though) I'm going to do it 100%... I don't want to see the opti module at all.

That being said, it behooves Delteq to consider an official release of info if they hope to sell cynics like me a stage1 anytime soon

Also, being a person who likes to tinker with ECU's anyway spark recurving, revlimiting etc has absolutly no interest to me.. so I hope thats not the holdup. I prefer the ECU to have 100% control of things, I don't like tricking it to do my treats.

97FormulaWS-6

The problem with releasing official information is that other companies are working on the same project... releasing what's under your hat if you are not ready, does nothing except put Delteq into a bad situation...

It's all business people. Stage 1 is well worth what it does for the pricing, and it solves the primary issue with the Optispark, the Hi-Voltage breakdowns that happen...

Stage 2, will be an upgrade and available seperately from the Stage 1 unit. The electronic portion is the easy part of the job... the hard part is making something mechanically reliable in that location of the car/engine that will stand up to usage and weather.

Gimpster

Ya but, I mean I have the timing cover etc off my car right now because I pulled the heads off for porting. In theory I wont be driving the car again until March or so (winter sucks!) if I could.. I'd like to hem it all up in one shot while the opti is off.

Delteq is who bought the rights/whatever for the old Electromotive SDI didn't they? As I remember the SDI systems used a reluctor wheel on the crank and not any of the optical sensor? I hope Delteq is doing that again, because honestly I'd rather time off the crank any day of the week as opposed to the cam.

Tom Piper

This is one of the problems.

The original Electromotive Opti-Eliminator depended on using the existing WORKING Opti-Spark and usng a timing light on number one spark plug to set the new crankshaft sensor. What do you do if your Opti-Spark is toast?

Since the LT1/LT4 engine does not have a keyed hub that is marked with top-dead-center, it presents a problem for the "average" shade-tree mechanic to setup an Opti-Spark replacement.
Even if your un-keyed hub has TDC accurately marked, it may move and be invalid.
And, even if you get a keyed hub, the method of finding TDC with a piston stop in the spark plug hole (especially, with aluminum heads) is not very accurate (the Opti-Spark accuracy is supposed to be within one crankshaft degree, and since we are going to replace it, you want at least that amount of accuracy and probably better) -- the piston stop in the spark plug hole is at almost a 90 degree angle with the cylinder axis and it tends to move in the soft aluminum head. I had a conversation with the Electrical Engineer on the Electromotive Opti-Eliminator (If I remember correctly, his name is J. C. Hyde, who also happens to be the same person as the one on the Delteq) on the problem of finding TDC with the heads on and I suggested using a dial-indicator with a looonnnggg tip that could reach into the cylinder and touch the top of the piston.
Keep in mind, this has to be something that the ****average**** shade-tree mechanic can do, or there won't be enough sales to make it profitable. And, who is going to supply the special dial indicator, etc? I see the cost of installation going up......
Plus, this crankshaft sensor and electronics ***HAS TO DUPLICATE*** the original low-resolution and high-resolution pulses for the OEM ECM or the ECM has to be replaced.


I marked my flywheel for TDC when I had the engine apart. The flywheel can only go on one way.


Tom Piper

Gimpster

Wow, had no idea the SDI used the opti AND a crank trigger... I can see why that didn't last too long now!

Tom Piper

No.

Because of the problem of no keyed hub and no convenient way to find TDC, the best way to do the initial setup of the Electromotive Opti-Eliminator unit was with a functional Opti-Spark. If I remember correctly, the Electromotive unit was standalone.

I think the '94 LT1 with sequential fire injection, instead of batch fire, killed the Electomotive unit. With a sequential fire system, camshaft position has to be known -- anything that only has input from the crankshaft will not know camshaft postion.

As far as I know, the Electromitive ignition system had four coils in a "waste spark" configuration, as does the Delteq. A waste spark ignition system only needs to know crankshaft position, but sequential fire injection needs to know the camshaft position. That is why any system that is going to completely replace the Opti-Spark for a sequential fire system is going to have to faithfully duplicate the Opti-Spark signals to satisfy the ECM. Or an after-market ECM is going to have to be used.

My point of all this is:
Stage-II may be doable, but don't hold your breath.

Tom Piper

bunker

whats wrong with just replacing the optical wheel with a trigger wheel and spacing the teeth like the optical holes are spaced and making it run inside the opti, so basically take the topi apart and replacing the light mechanism but make it in a nice little box that can also be removed with out taking the pump out

texanmutt

Most of the optical failures are from rust blinding of the hi res slots. This could be fixed if the hi res slots were larger. Then they wouldnt get blinded.

Dave69Z

The PCM limits you to about 7000-7200rpm...with FAST or Accel GEN 7 people like Joe Overton are taking Optis to 7800rpm or so.

Dave

Injuneer

Incorrect info.... I run the Opti optical sensor as a cam position sensor feeding my MoTeC ECU, and driving 8 LS1 coils, and my redline is 7,400rpm. George Baxter used the same setup on his 1,125HP Vortech/383, and the engine was capable of 8,000rpm with no limitation by the Opti optical sensor.