Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
06-11-2006, 08:35 AM
#76
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 862
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
Originally Posted by Tom Piper
I think Delteq intended to make a unit that eliminated the Opti-Spark completely.
But, this is no small undertaking.
There is one major problem with this design -- unless you are going to replace the ECM/PCM, it requires a low-res signal for both the fuel injection and the ignition, plus a high-res signal for refined ignition timing.
This would be difficult to duplicate with a magnetic pickup with the same amount of accuracy (1 crankshaft degree). A narrow light beam is much more accurate than a magnetic field.
My preference would be an optical low-res pulse cam driven (because it doesn't have to be that accurate) and an optical high-res pulse crankshaft driven to eliminate timing chain slop and increase its accuracy.
I have the Delteq and I am happy with it. But, the Delteq is not an extremely accurate device -- the ignition timing accuracy is still determined by the ECM/PCM EST (Electronic Spark Timing) signal the same way as it was done without the Delteq.
The Delteq simply determines which coil the EST signal will fire by opening a "window of opportunity" for each coil to fire -- the EST signal fires the selected coil. That "window of opportunity" the Delteq supplies does not have to be very accurate -- just wide enough to accommodate the EST signal without overlapping coils.
If the Optical section alone can be improved on to eliminate problems with rust and the bearing, since the Delteq replaces the high voltage section, it is probably a much better option to go with.
Tom Piper
But, this is no small undertaking.
There is one major problem with this design -- unless you are going to replace the ECM/PCM, it requires a low-res signal for both the fuel injection and the ignition, plus a high-res signal for refined ignition timing.
This would be difficult to duplicate with a magnetic pickup with the same amount of accuracy (1 crankshaft degree). A narrow light beam is much more accurate than a magnetic field.
My preference would be an optical low-res pulse cam driven (because it doesn't have to be that accurate) and an optical high-res pulse crankshaft driven to eliminate timing chain slop and increase its accuracy.
I have the Delteq and I am happy with it. But, the Delteq is not an extremely accurate device -- the ignition timing accuracy is still determined by the ECM/PCM EST (Electronic Spark Timing) signal the same way as it was done without the Delteq.
The Delteq simply determines which coil the EST signal will fire by opening a "window of opportunity" for each coil to fire -- the EST signal fires the selected coil. That "window of opportunity" the Delteq supplies does not have to be very accurate -- just wide enough to accommodate the EST signal without overlapping coils.
If the Optical section alone can be improved on to eliminate problems with rust and the bearing, since the Delteq replaces the high voltage section, it is probably a much better option to go with.
Tom Piper
2. Even if they could design hardware that provided more than than 1* of ignition timing accuracy, the stock PCM's embedded architecture is still only programmed to recognize 360*'s of resolution, so in essence it would be a waste.
3. Faulting the Delteq for being "not that accurate of a device" is really not fair since it's designed to be a slave to the stock PCM's signals and a slave can only do as well as a master tells it. If you wanted a more accurate system, before you could even begin to blame the Delteq you'd need to throw out the stock PCM and start over from scratch there. Which is to say, not even necessary.
06-12-2006, 12:03 AM
#77
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 192
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
The only smart thing to do is to make a small optical only replacement. This replacement would have to bolt to a stock style mounting point (this way you could replace it without pulling the waterpump). Imagine a stock style mounting plate with additional holes for the new stuff.
The extra bonus of small size is that you would only have to dislodge the balancer for clearance and not have to jack up the engine for complete removal (at least on a 'Vette).
The extra bonus of small size is that you would only have to dislodge the balancer for clearance and not have to jack up the engine for complete removal (at least on a 'Vette).
06-12-2006, 03:31 PM
#78
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,825
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
Originally Posted by thesoundandthefury
1. Since when is 1* of ignition timing not accurate enough? Do you know of any other ignition systems in existence that have a higher resolution than this that beg the notion that the optispark system was lacking in this area?
2. Even if they could design hardware that provided more than than 1* of ignition timing accuracy, the stock PCM's embedded architecture is still only programmed to recognize 360*'s of resolution, so in essence it would be a waste.
3. Faulting the Delteq for being "not that accurate of a device" is really not fair since it's designed to be a slave to the stock PCM's signals and a slave can only do as well as a master tells it. If you wanted a more accurate system, before you could even begin to blame the Delteq you'd need to throw out the stock PCM and start over from scratch there. Which is to say, not even necessary.
2. Even if they could design hardware that provided more than than 1* of ignition timing accuracy, the stock PCM's embedded architecture is still only programmed to recognize 360*'s of resolution, so in essence it would be a waste.
3. Faulting the Delteq for being "not that accurate of a device" is really not fair since it's designed to be a slave to the stock PCM's signals and a slave can only do as well as a master tells it. If you wanted a more accurate system, before you could even begin to blame the Delteq you'd need to throw out the stock PCM and start over from scratch there. Which is to say, not even necessary.
He was simply suggesting what the limitation might be to developing an alternative device to produce a signal with accuracy similar to the Opti.
Or maybe I totally missed the point of your criticism?????
06-23-2006, 10:07 PM
#79
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,317
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
okay have a question bout my kit since elite spark plugs has terrible service!!! i think my brand new opti is already bad on me!!! i have checked every engine part and sensor possible and only thing i come up with is my 500mile opti blew out on me!! i'm getting perfect spark off my coils so that means the optical sensor part of the opti is good. correct?? car never sees rain........ and i siliconed the outside of this thing to make sure nothing happened to it.
if the cam sensor in the opti went bad would that cause my car to have a no start/and just crank issue?
if the cam sensor in the opti went bad would that cause my car to have a no start/and just crank issue?
06-24-2006, 12:44 AM
#80
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,825
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
The optical sensor is the "cam sensor". If you lose the high res pulse patterns, it will still run, with a mino increase in spark scatter. If you lose the low res pulse pattern, the PCM will shut down the fuel system.
06-24-2006, 11:05 AM
#82
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,317
Re: Any word on the Delteq Stage 2?
i sent you a pm injuneer by the way. anyhow no leaks from the FPR or the injectors and i have pressure at the rails.
i think this means my opti is bad-- the yellow opti wire in the opti harness with the key turned on lights up with a test light.. is my opti bad??
i think this means my opti is bad-- the yellow opti wire in the opti harness with the key turned on lights up with a test light.. is my opti bad??
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