KCFormula

You know its fine if people can have an opinion, however when it comes to ****ing with someone's business I really think that is chicken ****.
Joe has more LT1 knowledge then anyone else I know, he has done a lot of research and his performance is proven. It is sad that he will not be sharing it with anyone else in the future. (Expecially before I had a chance to try one of his cams)
Best of luck Joe, in whatever you choose to do from here.

LS1_03

Damn. I was hoping Joe would be able to make a custom cam for stock heads. Or I at least was going to ask him about it. I'm not sure if a custom cam would show much benefit from stock heads, but that's what I could've talked to him about. Now there's no point since he isn't going to make one anyway.

Bud M

So what is stopping Joe from becoming a Supporting Advertiser and using the board to help build his business like our other sponsors?
I'd like to see anyone who produces a quality product for our cars be successful but if you are going to use CamaroZ28.com to do it, you gotta do it the right way.

jbird

I don't think that this is at all so much a business, given that Joe probably sees very little profit for it, maybe enough to compensate for his time, but I seriously doubt it. I don't know him personally, but he may be one of those car guys like the majority of us, who just likes to make things faster.

I'd say that Joe is more helping people out than trying to build up a business, and if you were to make the kind of numbers he's making, you'd probably be excited about it as well.

It'd be just the same if you home ported your heads and got some outrageous power number, I'm sure you would come on here and brag about it, leave the poor guy be. If he hadn't been flamed on so much, the LT1 community as a whole could have seen great benefit, but now the knowledge behind those awesome cams is put to no use. No one wins, except for maybe a stupid argument that wasn't worth it in the first place.

It's untelling how long the LT1 technology world will take to regain or find enough knowledge about these engines to compensate. When we're all gettting outrun by rice burners in a few years we'll wish someone was still around to squeeze out an extra 40 hp or so.

Don't get me wrong, I hate rice, but it does keep getting faster and faster, and new-born camaros that get faster and faster are a thing of the past. I'd take an old camaro over rice any day of the week though. Especially since right now there isn't much to worrry about in the rice department.

Well, Joe, hope you change your mind. Don't let the opinions of some on here ruin it for all of us. If not, then I fully understand and realize why, and best of luck to you. I'm about to purchase a LT1 Z, hopefully within a few months, and was hoping to be able to run one of your cams someday. ---J.Bird

SMOKINV8

Well, I will first say that the information I have about Joe is all second hand, but from what I know, the criticism people are giving him is bull****.

Some of you people are under the impression that this is Joe's lifelong project of running this business or something, and his lifelyhood depends on its success. If that's what you believe, then you're wrong. He did his own R&D, and came up with a solution that works. As far as him making cams for other people, guess what... I would gamble that 80% of his motivation was for the betterment of the LT1 community. Do you guys seriously think that it is worth his time to sit down and examine car specs, and determine a precise cam lobe, for a measily $50 a pop? And even if it IS worth his time, do you think he would make a living off of it? And for that matter, do you think he makes enough money off of it to warrant paying the fee to advertise here? I really don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, from everything I've heard about you Joe, you're a great guy. Best of luck with your future endeavors, and I hope you don't truly give up helping the progress of the LT1's success.

b-stevens

Mods, can we get this moved to the lounge so I dont have to see it when I'm looking at tech information?

This upsets me...

95Z-Cross-Eyed

Joe,

You know what they say about opinions. Dont allow there jealousy of your abilities to rob the rest of the Lt1 community the ability to get such great cams from you. I bought one even while you where under the criticism of some of the others on this board. I feel you have acted with dignity and been respectful even while under the gun so to speak. Soon I will have mine in the car and have yet another proven Joe O cam. And geuss what its in a convertible. but I DO now how to drive a six speed and will have different results. we all know ability of a driver plays a huge part. Thats why I have had alot of people not believe what i had ran in the convertible with only mac shorties, air foil <-- ohhh look out for that one, CAI, and a crane ignition. No weight reductions besides jack and spare tire removed.

Funny part all I have ever seen you do is criticise the trap speeds on his cars. Then keep window shopping just look and continue moving. I read post daily that I dont agree with, Claims that just dont make sense (read the kill section will keep you very busy) but I dont feel a need to bust everyone's chops, especially when they dont relate to me. Funny thing is you get mad because he wont state specs, but yet you make fun of how they perform. Make sense? No. If you dont like how it traps then move on this isnt for you. No sense in inquiring.

Joe,
I just wanna say thank you for your expertise in designing a cam for my car. I believe it will be money well spent.

Thanks,
Mike

mongse_1

Another good thing screwed up by a few people.

2MCHPSI

I do not see how a messageboard can dictate someone stopping their services That sounds ridiculous.. I can see if you do not want to post here anymore and take it to PM or e-mail, becasue technically I can see a vendor who pays for advertising for their services might get offended.. But to say stoppng you services over stupid message board bickering? That is completely retarded.

jbird

my guess would be that he sees so little profit from grinding the cams, especially given the time he's put into them, and with everyone flaming, he's just tired of putting up with all the crap, not to see that great of a financial gain.

If he was making a butt load of money off of these cams, I'm sure he would go on making them, but my opinion is that he just wanted to help the LT1 community out, and half of everyone here flames him.

WS Sick

I feel like this as well, just ignore the poeple and go on.

jbird

yeah, true, if he did everyone involved would be better off

Brent94Z

First, I'll only comment on the above quote. I don't know the entire situation enough to get into it like some of you.

But, I just want to point out that what I have quoted above is a common misconception. The amount of money people make (if any) off a product has nothing to do with it being a business or not or the need to become a supporting advertiser for this site. The reason for needing to be a supporting advertiser to promote your product is to be fair to the other supporting advertisers. Let us just assume that Mr. X makes zero money and gives his time for free. People like his product and therefore 50 people on this board end up buying it. Mr. X is busy for a month and donates his time to his fellow F-Body buds. That is GREAT! However, when a supporting advertiser sells a similar product, the supporting advertiser now has no chance to gain the business of the 50 people that just bought Mr. X's item. Pretty soon there is no reason for the supporting advertisers to pay to advertise here then eventually the site shuts down for lack of funding. Nobody wants that so while sometimes the advertiser rules SUCK for the best interest of the members, they are in place for a reason and ultimately in the end are for the members... to keep the site up and running and available for them to use.

The other point I see being brought up here is that some are upset because he won't give out his specs. I don't blame him at all. If he has any desire to maybe start a full time business venture in the future, he doesn't want all his "secrets" out there that he worked hard to learn/gain. A good example of this is my 1996SS. It doesn't have long tubes, gets 25mpg with 4.10 gears, and dynos at 399 rwhp with a mild cam. The cam and heads were bought as a "package" from a speed shop. The speed shop would not give out the details of anything about this package. Why? Probably because you don't see too many HOT cam cars out there without long tubes doing 399 rwhp and 115+mph trap speeds fully weighted down. BTW, it was found out through the grape vine (not sure how?) that the cam they use is nothing more than a standard HOT cam. So, no big secret there but the point I'm trying to make is this particular shop had a proven setup that they sold and didn't want to give out the specifics so any Joe Blow could do it on their own. They were just protecting their business.

WS Sick

I see most of your point about the advertising aspect, but Joe was only doing one -off cams, not selling most everything that bolts to the car. Of course I may be off here.

But to just leave because a fe people critisize you I can't imagine.

95Z-Cross-Eyed

Are there any Vendors that push or sell custom cams. I am just curious because I have never seen a group purchase on one or anyone stating they sell them. I am not saying they are not I am curious. If they do excuse my ignorance I am just unaware of any vendors that do. Im sure that if there isnt I will here the argument that they are loosing sells of shelf cams which im my case is false. I had a brand new CC306 shelf cam that was sold brand new to goto the purchase of my new Joe O cam. Which if I had known of him in the first place the cc306 would have never been bought.

Mike