BUBBA

And don't blame me:

A "custom" cam is just that. It is a cam that is customized based on intended use and other components. Many, if not most, cam builders will build you a "custom" cam.

They offer off-the-shelf cams based on intended uses and the "general" types of components and platforms. If they find that a particular grind turns out to be better, then they offer that cam over the counter.

I am guessing that anyone who is grinding custom cams, uses a formula to determine the best grind of a particular use and to work with a specific set of components.

If all the custom cams that are built by this person or persons, result in numbers, far superior to those experienced by using an off-the-shelf cam s,I would not only highly recommend buying of the those cams (even without knowing the specs) and I certainly wouldn't bitch, if I experienced the numbers/performance experienced by someone who had that cam. Buat since the cam is "custom" I'd have to have exactly the same situation of that person to get the same results.

Which brings me back to the "custom" part of the equation. Heresay, is just that. Repeatable results, i.e.,well-documented empiracle evidence that shows that a person, a company, etal. consistently can provide you with a "custom" grind that will be superior to anything off the shelf, is a dream come true.

If Joe, or anyone else can do this, then count me in.

Having said that, let me say this about that.

If I had this uncanny ability to determine the specs of a cam that would be the desire of everyone with an Lt1, Ls1, etc. I'd take advantage of it and quit my day job.

I assume one would only need to measure the dimensions of any custom ground cam in order to know those dimensions and duplicate them (which I doubt is rocket surgery for a machinest.

I believe this whole thing is blown out of proportion because many believe it was kinda (whatever) to talk of custom grinds and big big numbers without some details. That is to say that if you want big, big numbers you need to buy a custom cam from so and so, who by the way, is not going to tell you what the specs are.

Again, it makes little sense because you can find out what it is when it comes in mail.

When you think about it. It is just like sending your PCM in to have it programed. If the programmer doesn't tell you what he/she did, you could probably find out by having it scanned.

So if anyone wants to tell us how well their mods are doing, and doesn't want to share any details. No big deal. However, if EVERYONE feels the same way, there would be little value for a site like this. JMHO

atljar

Bubba-
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but heres the thing. This wasnt HIS car. If someone came in and said i made 450rwhp with John Does cam, cool. Post up the graph, the corrections, let us know the condition of the car while it was on the dyno. Doubt he would have anyone say much to him negqative.

Thats NOT what happened. What if a major company like Comp came on here, and posted "just ground a cam for customer XXX, made 450 rwhp" Sorry, dont have dyno sheet nor corrections and Im not going to post them. WTF? You arent doing anything but drumming up business and using the bandwith for free advertising.

Maybe i see things differently around here because I help run a local f-body board (400 some members, nothing like the size of this board) and see what goes on behind the scenes. If you have crap like this being put up, you give the advertisers who do pay, no reason to continue paying. You have to make the board EXCLUSIVE to those who help support it.

BUBBA

Altjar: When you read my posts/responses you need to read "between the lines" At least in situations like this.

Bottom line. I responded only because I was bored. You know as well as most here, that this stuff happens frequently. No one, save a few, here is going to come right out and flame the poster for making unsupportable claims.

Most of the newbies will justs say "wow! where can I can that whatchamacallit. I'll take two and send them overnite."

Remember the big todo over the descovery that going to 1.7 RRs is the "only way to go" because so and so knows another so and so who got a 50 RWHP gain? I see it as the same type of thing.

Normally, when I see such claims, I just read'em and move on, unless the post is from someone who is well-known and respected.

We all tend to be a bit skeptical when a reletively new member makes claims but neglects to provide any proof.

So I will in the future try to go back to my usual wait and see posture instead of jumping on the flame wagon or envy train when one of these claims is made.

As for me, I bought a tiny 210/224 run of the mill cam for what I intend to use it for and for what it has been proved to do for my particular platform. Personally, I would not want to spend the money and take the risk of having an important component as a cam in my ride without knowing how the cam would perform. But then again, I may be in the minority.JMHO

Joes94TA

Altjar so why keep saying everything over and over ..you already said that once...hey I withdrew my help ..what more you want? ..a fine for your accusation of advertising..gimme a break...yeah right I'm advertising ,what a joke. I dont need to advertise my friend nor do I have anything to prove...
Are you fearful you might run into some competition??
Are you second guessing maybe you left something on the table and now having regrets??
sure sounds like it from everything you posted in all the threads on this subject from the beginning..

pretty good times in your sig..You do know however theres boilt on cars running right at those times...

BUBBA

Oh...and while I'm still bored. What really befuddles the hell out of me is why no one mentions one thing about the stats of Joe's ride.

To me, that is one impressive ride. And I believe he should be hailed as the "chief" instead of being ragged on.

I mean: a 94 TA 388 CI
9.73 @ 138.09
1.349 60 (all motor)

Those are dammned impressive stats.

I'd be more inclined to ask about alot of other things besides the specs of his cam. But by the same token, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to tell us how he did it.JMHO

SS RRR

Which means the LT1 heads/cam combos blessed with your talent and installed on a manual car should crush those numbers... but hasn't been done yet due to on excuse or another.
So why can't you post up the corrected numbers for the latest?

IllusionalTA

This post is getting ridiculous <sp>.. I know joe personally and have dealt w/ him on many occasion's whether it'd be at the track, email, etc.. LIke he posted above i seriously doubt he's loosing any significant income by not providing cam's to the LTx community.. I have seen both the Joe "O" H/C LT1's in person as well.. Both the 399 and the 452... I'll tell you that the WS6 conv't is not setup for track duty in any way shape or form.. and no offense to gary, but he really don't race his car all that much and i'm sure there is quite a bit more in it if he was "more aggresive" w/ it.. Dyno #'s Sae #"s BLah blah blah blah blah blah.. WHo care's? Is this the ClubSI? Let the man go peacefully and work on his own car, which not many on here can even consider holding a candle too.. it sure as hell ain't a mail order car!!! But i will tell you that the LTx community has lost maybe not for good but a very valuable resource of knowledge... Lets end the damn animosity <sp> .. and in the words of Martin.. "Can't we all Just GET ALONG!!!"

jonaddis84

Give me two months and youll see his numbers on a 381 LE stock casting LT1 heads/M6...shootin for the 500 barrier

BUBBA

Forgettaboutit! The proof is there. What we need to do is try to figure out how we ALL can get stats like that, especially with a ride that is not "set up" for the track.

When you see the proof that someone can get performance like that and they want to keep the recipe a secret (which they certainly have the right to do)its up to others to try and solve the equation and not just expect that someone is going to give the farm away.

And if I find out the secret, I just may not decide to let you all know. It really just depends on how I feel at the time.

And please don't flame ME for my belief that I should be able to benefit from my hard work and not just give it all away for nothing.JMHO.

Altjar: Between the lines man, between the lines.

simple

precisely

i had been buying parts for the last 4 months so i could have everything i needed listed out for him the best way possible so Joe could have as much info as possible to work with, to grind a cam for me. i had been planning on him hopefully working his 'magic' for atleast that long!
bottom line is the man KNOWS what he is doing and should be praised not belittled
his services (now passed tense) seemed 2nd to none

*passes the jibba jabba stick* carry on

Cmr0z28

Can you back that up? I'd like to see an LT1 car w/stock internals and just boltons N/A running 11.98 and trapping 115+mph.

Fast Caddie

Why the pickyness? The proof is in the pudding. Many of the people running Joe's cams have the same "other" mods we do.... hooker LTs, electric WPs, AFRs, gears, etc. You can look at other similarly modded cars and see the difference.... given two cars with almost the same mods, one has something like a CC305 or 306 and the other has one of Joe's cams.... intuition should tell you that the difference in dyno/track results (whatever they may be) will give an accurate depiction of the validity of his reputation for making good cam grinds. Besides, with the variation of heads and cam specs out there how can you make an accurate judgement on how "x" cam will work with "y" setup different from the original poster's? The cam was made SPECIFICALLY for that combo... not all combos out there so it's pointless to try to compare.


I see your point here, now see below:

So Joe may be "drumming up" a business.... people who want to use his cams need components. Where do they get the timing sets, springs, lifters, rocker arms, etc from? The board's vendors. So someone all of a sudden decides they want a beast because they see what Joe can offer as far as cams and puts the notion in their heads.... where do they get the stoker kits, heads, porting services, various chassis and suspension parts to handle the added power? The board's vendors. Or maybe someone bought an off-the-shelf cam kit last year, ran it, and wants something different and better this year.... and decides Joe is the man they want to make their cam due to his proven performance. And the cam he designs needs new or better parts... you think they'll sell off their current stuff and get the better parts for more power? Sure. And where will they get those new/better parts? The board's vendors. This last point happens VERY frequently.

See where this is going? When something like this comes along and starts a stir, everyone benefits. It's the name of the game. And it's how the LT1's reputation improves in light of the newer technology (GenIII).

Me, personally, I hope Joe decides to do cams again in the near future. I'm going with an 18* head conversion and want him to spec the cam since very very VERY few people would know how to spec a cam out for this setup. Sure, I can call the cam company and ask for advice... but Joe is more on a level with us since he works with the LT1 specifically. I'd trust his judgement better than the cam companies themselves cause it would probably take a few cam purchases or more to get exactly what i want from them.

Not flaming, just offering another point of view.

Best of luck Joe... don't venture too far out

IllusionalTA

i've personally wrenched on one that went 12.03 and i have raced w/ the Said 11.9 car... they do exist... But both have sinced moved on to bigger and better things.. i.e heads and cam's...

94 guy

Joe says he works for crane right? call ask for him at the tech line and get a custom grind. that way he can recommend you what he would if you were not going through crane and you will pay less. so basically you get his knowledge for cranes price.

simple

doubtful its that easy good try tho

who didnt see this thread going over 5 pages? i see a minimum of 7 coming up