maxf

Hey all,

I couldn't find a better area to post this in, so I hope it's okay. If not, please move it to the right spot.

I'm looking into buying an early 4th gen Camaro... It'll be my first one. The car will be a project car over the summer for me and my dad. Both of us drive Saabs right now () and when we finish the Camaro, I'll get to keep it.

Anyways, we're trying to figure out what to get- an automatic or a six speed. I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but the search button yielded no results for me. I'd really like to know what you guys think we should go with.

My goals for the car are like this: We'll most likely build up the engine, but not too much, as this will be our first venture into.. well, the auto world. Some basic bolt ons will follow. After we're "done," this car will be my daily driver. The Saab I have right now is a five speed and I absolutely love it (the fact that it's a stick, not a Saab). I don't know if I could enjoy an automatic as much. But, if an automatic is somehow a lot better than a six speed, then maybe we'll opt to go that route. So.. what is better, overall, an automatic or a stick? Remember, this is specific to the early fourth gen Camaro.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you all have to say...

95sr71

A good friend of mine sold his 94 firebird after the third time he had rebuilt the auto within a year. This made me insist on a six speed car when shoping for a project car. Besides I can replace the wear items in a stick (clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing) but i would have to pay sombody to replace the wear items in a auto.

Jason Robb

97Z-M6

do a search. it has been discussed a hundred times.

Brian1996TA

It depends on what you want to do with it. If its a daily driver, i prefer a stick b/c i have had 3 auto fbodys and this is my first stick and i love driving it every day and make excuses to drive it somewhere. If its a drag car mainly then go with an auto point blank. I like the stick better b/c the gears are so much closer and you always stay in the power range and...... the best part is you get better gas with a stick.

Brent94Z

You really can't say one is better than the other without looking at the intended purpose and your personal preferences.

I drive both an A4 and M6 early 4th gen Camaro (not stock ). They each have their purpose and I enjoy driving each of them.

If you say you really enjoy driving a Saab with the 5 speed then you pretty much answered your own question... get the 6 speed

Just some things to consider...

A4 is better if you are in stop and go traffic all the time because the M6 gets to be a pain. Since you enjoy your current manual tranny, you shouldn't have this problem.

While the M6 can be a more fun to drive car, adding a good stall converter to the 4L60E can make it fun as well. I have a Vigilante 2800 stall on my Vortech Supercharged 94Z28 and love it.

If you want to roadrace/autocross, the M6 might be better for ya.

if you want to bracket race serioulsy, then the automatic will be better for ya.

If you just want to have fun and row through the gears and listen to the exhaust, get the M6. If you don't want to be bothered by shifting, get the A4

They both are really decent transmissions and I don't think I'd say for sure to get one over the other due to one being "better" than the other. Get the one you want and you'll be happy

DavidNC

I drove a m6 and auto (both 97's) at the same time, and ended up keeping the m6. I drive street only, with no drag strip plans. The auto was clearly a faster straight line street car. It blasted away on the street light runs, without much more concern than planting the pedal to the floor. But, don't get caught in the turns. The M6 is very hard to consistantly take off from a start and accelerate without spinning the tires (I run 275/40/17 tires), but the control of gearing for turns is fantastic. I ended up keeping only the m6 because the auto was not as much fun to drive, and I stopped the street racing scene. Interesting point, the auto would aways run 0-60 in less than 5 secs, but I had to be running the m6 good to get 0-60 runs under 5 sec. Yet, everybody thought that the m6 was the faster car, just because it was a six speed. My m6 commands respect and eludes the image of being one of the fastest cars without my even having to race. The auto had to prove itself. So, if image counts get the m6. If winning races in a straight line counts, get the auto. If going fastest and winning races on winding roads counts, get the m6. There really is no substutute for slowing down and comimg into the parking lot with an lt1/ slp loud mouth exhaust and m6. The "backfire rasping" sound and feeling is beautiful, and elicits thumbs ups from others.

maxf

Thanks Brent94Z and DavidNC. Both of your posts really were helpful.

I think I'm going to test drive both the M6 and A4, but right now I'm leaning toward the M6. I don't plan on doing bracket racing, although I would like to hit the strip for for. I also do plan on going autoXing. I'll make a post when I buy a car

speed_demon24

I bought an auto a couple years ago, and started regreting it as soon as the joy wore off from buying a new car. I almost sold it a few times because it was an auto, and I love 6-spds so much more. Then at my last trip to the track I realized mine was starting to slip, so I ordered a 6-spd conversion. If you like driving manuals more, definatly get the 6-speed or else you will regret it for the rest of the time owning your car.

ShawnMacAnanny

A 4l60E with a shift kit is like no other automatic transmission. I had a TH350 built to go 10s, in a 12 second camaro, and my stock 4L60e with a shift kit was so much better.

I have 315 Nitto 555r drag radials and my car with chirp 2nd gear. Those are 13 inch wide tires at 20psi. Granted they arent heated up when the do it, but still with the 245s i had it would melt them into 2nd. To let everyone know i have 2.73s which put the 4L60e as the best automatic transmission ever in my book. I'm a manual person myself, my first 3 cars were manual, but this transmission is by no means inferior to a manual.

Why i like this auto better:

When downshift the auto seems much easier on parts. It seems to slam around less

When upshifting it's faster, and feels easier on parts, especially the rear end. Your foot also leaves your accelerator. Your 6 speed won't last too long shifting that way, i know alot of people who do.

The auto will never miss a gear

With a stall, the auto will beat a manual off of the line more consistently.

The auto in general runs the most consistent times at the track

The auto will get better city gas mileage. I was stuck in a 4 hour back up of traffic over the bay bridge. i got 21mpg.

I have the perfomance button so i can select normal shifts, or extremely hard shifts.

The auto is less likely to break your rear end

To me the 6 speed is harder to race in just because of the sheer power transfering all at that instant like a 2nd gear shift. It's not good to spin tires to the point of your rear end going sideways. It actually makes you slower.

The auto IMO is easier to be stupid with, i.e. burn outs, sliding around turns, evassive manuvering in traffic, stuff like that. I do only ever steer with one hand, but it's safer not to have to shift, and to have that extra hand available.

The auto weighs less

Why a 6 speed is better:

You are driving it, it's not driving you

You will get better highway mileage

You wont need to buy a stall but will need to upgrade the clutch

You wont need a shift kit

Nothing is as fun as a manual transmission

The 6 speeds can handle more power. autos start to go around 400rwhp. 6 speeds i'm not exactly sure.

the 6 speed will put more power to the ground where as the auto will be consistently faster.

IMO if you arent going to be driving it all the time get a 6 speed. They are more fun to me. If you are going to be drag racing alot, i would go with the auto.

Here is a guy who actually did the swap, same mods, dynoed and ran the track with an auto and a manual.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...t=auto+results

tanker

6 speed, there is no replacement for burning tires up to third in hot weather/fourth in cold weather. But if a T56 tranny breaks (like it did to my brother) it will cost more to replace than an engine However, automatic transmissions are known to break more often. Also 6-speed camaros hold a better resale value and its easier to sell them.

blown94

Damn, now thats talent! Id like to try that sometime, as soon as i figure out how to clone myself. LOL

blown94

But seriously, the reason everyone thinks sticks are faster is because you do stay in the powerband more and it FEELS like your in a rocket ship, but it takes skill to drive a stick to the point where you can crush an auto in a drag, if were speaknig of equally tuned vehicles. I love stick, but I have an auto because in traffic sticks suck, and if I had a stick I would just beat the **** out of it all the time, its the nature of the beast. And as far as auto's being weaker, get it built RIGHT, not CHEAP. An auto setup correctly with the right stall conv. and manually shifting it will prove to be just as much fun and equally impressive. I shift my auto manually alot, its actually better for your tranny if you know what the hell your doing. I had 76k miles on mine when I pulled it out to rebuild and add 2500 stall conv. and the only thing wrong with it was the 3-4 clutches were starting to burn and flake because the forward piston had a crack in it leading to pressure loss. 3-4 pack is the weak link in these tranny's and when you build them you replace the setup with a steel piston. As for the rest of the tranny, it was spotless, and believe me, for the 30k miles I owned the car, I beat the snot out of it, but with respect. I work at a tranny shop, and I know how to beat on them without killing them, but like I said, its all about how the auto is setup. Its purely a matter of choice in driving styles, but dont rule out one and let someone tell you one is better as it still boils down to driving intentions. Let us know what you decide and why and how you like it.

atljar

Agree with everything above.

Somethings not noted. 6 speeds handle more power in stock form easily. They also (in my experiences), dont need rebuilding nearly as often other than a new clutch when needed. With that being said, they also are harder on the rear ends, which is one of the weakest links about f bodies. At the track an auto car has much less likely chance of breaking the rear. You can always upgrade to a better rear, but that is pretty expensive.

Some thoughts on the cars too.
93 cars are speed density. They also carry a different gear ratio spread in the t56 cars than the 94+. 94-97s are MAF. The MAF cars are much easier to tune later on if you start getting into heavier modifications. Also 94-95 cars are cheaper to tune than the 96-97 models. 95+ cars have a better designed distributor (called "optispark") on them which are little less likely to fail prematurely. 97 cars switched over to a newer style interior, some like it better, some dont.

For me, a 95 6 speed would be the first choice, followed by a 94, then 97.

Anyways, just some oddball info so you know what you are getting into.

EDIT: Just re-read what i said about optisparks. All LT1s have an optispark, the 95+ is just better. I didnt want it to sound like they added the opti in 95.

DavidNC

How long have you had the cabin fever?


Re: Automatic vs. six speed

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNC
I drove a m6 and auto (both 97's) at the same time, and ended up keeping the m6.



Damn, now thats talent! Id like to try that sometime, as soon as i figure out how to clone myself. LOL

Brent94Z

Oh yeah... I didn't mean to try make it sound like the M6 wasn't good for drag racing... just if you are doing it weekly and for points and for money, then the automatic is your better choice (most will say). However, if you are just going to the strip for a good time then an M6 will do ya just fine

Also, welcome to the board! While this is boderline content for this forum, I'll leave it here because you aren't so much as looking for tech answers related to the transmissions but rather opinions from the LT1 guys who have these transmissions. But, future specific questions related to the M6 or A4 should be posted in the drivetrain forum. Thanks!