Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
10-28-2004, 02:47 PM
#76
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
If a spring breaks in 5,000 miles I could just be one of those "it happens" things, or it could be that the cam lobes have some bad accellerations, jerk, or 4th, 5th and 6th order of velocity problems. When you have lobes that could cause this a better spring material (like a 918 beehive) or a dual spring is the only solution to preventing damage.
If it breaks on a 20,000 mile motor, that's the owners fault. I say this because at the most 15,000 miles on a high performance valvetrain setup is a ton. Valve springs turn into a wear item at that point. Changing the springs at 10,000 - 15,000 miles is the only way to keep a spring from ruining your motor. Track time has zero to do with it, it's revolutions.
Bret
If it breaks on a 20,000 mile motor, that's the owners fault. I say this because at the most 15,000 miles on a high performance valvetrain setup is a ton. Valve springs turn into a wear item at that point. Changing the springs at 10,000 - 15,000 miles is the only way to keep a spring from ruining your motor. Track time has zero to do with it, it's revolutions.
Bret
10-28-2004, 03:06 PM
#77
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: stone mountain ,ga
Posts: 51
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
So people with daily drivers should change out the valve springs that often thats crazy I mean think about it heads and cam cars are high performance.
10-28-2004, 03:06 PM
#78
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 691
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
If a spring breaks in 5,000 miles I could just be one of those "it happens" things, or it could be that the cam lobes have some bad accellerations, jerk, or 4th, 5th and 6th order of velocity problems. When you have lobes that could cause this a better spring material (like a 918 beehive) or a dual spring is the only solution to preventing damage.
If it breaks on a 20,000 mile motor, that's the owners fault. I say this because at the most 15,000 miles on a high performance valvetrain setup is a ton. Valve springs turn into a wear item at that point. Changing the springs at 10,000 - 15,000 miles is the only way to keep a spring from ruining your motor. Track time has zero to do with it, it's revolutions.
Bret
If it breaks on a 20,000 mile motor, that's the owners fault. I say this because at the most 15,000 miles on a high performance valvetrain setup is a ton. Valve springs turn into a wear item at that point. Changing the springs at 10,000 - 15,000 miles is the only way to keep a spring from ruining your motor. Track time has zero to do with it, it's revolutions.
Bret
Hi Bret I see your point on a high preformance engine with big cams etc but this is not a race car witha big cam but, a everyday driver for the Delteq System I promote and sell..... With the 224/236/114 cam (low lift version) I have should not have toasted these springs in less then 20k i have built many motors were they have gone through hell and did not break the dampers like this. These springs were mounted on bone stock heads with no mods (and installed correctly).... I can’t say this car has never seen high rpm but it's not a race-car and 95% of the driving is below 4000 rpm. I would have expected the spring to break before the damper
Last edited by Maldo; 10-28-2004 at 03:09 PM.
10-28-2004, 03:12 PM
#79
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Jim I hear ya, but aftermarket lobes and lift require that springs are now a wear item. Now would you replace the 612's at 15,000miles to save your motor?
I would use another spring that I wouldn't want to worry about but I would still replace them after 15,000 miles.
Bret
I would use another spring that I wouldn't want to worry about but I would still replace them after 15,000 miles.
Bret
10-28-2004, 03:27 PM
#80
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 691
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Jim I hear ya, but aftermarket lobes and lift require that springs are now a wear item. Now would you replace the 612's at 15,000miles to save your motor?
I would use another spring that I wouldn't want to worry about but I would still replace them after 15,000 miles.
Bret
I would use another spring that I wouldn't want to worry about but I would still replace them after 15,000 miles.
Bret
I think you are missing the point When I buy stuff from a vender I expect for them to tell me about thier product or give good recommendation when i tell them what i need it for ... there are a ton of guys out here who run the same cam using other springs with no problems ...
I have built many motor that I know what’s what but when I call up a vendors and they tell me to take off my double valve springs and to run their springs because it was a better match (I was told be Seth (when he worked there) This is why I am upset about this issue….
10-28-2004, 06:03 PM
#81
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Quad Cities
Posts: 609
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
If the springs you are refering too had a damper..there were not 612s! That means they sent the wrong springs or you put different springs on thinking they were 612s. Obviously if they were not 612s they may have needed machining to work on the heads.
10-28-2004, 07:20 PM
#82
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Originally Posted by Maldo
Bret,
I think you are missing the point When I buy stuff from a vender I expect for them to tell me about thier product or give good recommendation when i tell them what i need it for ... there are a ton of guys out here who run the same cam using other springs with no problems ...
I have built many motor that I know what’s what but when I call up a vendors and they tell me to take off my double valve springs and to run their springs because it was a better match (I was told be Seth (when he worked there) This is why I am upset about this issue….
I think you are missing the point When I buy stuff from a vender I expect for them to tell me about thier product or give good recommendation when i tell them what i need it for ... there are a ton of guys out here who run the same cam using other springs with no problems ...
I have built many motor that I know what’s what but when I call up a vendors and they tell me to take off my double valve springs and to run their springs because it was a better match (I was told be Seth (when he worked there) This is why I am upset about this issue….
Sometimes the right part is more expensive and that scares guys away, all depends on what you are trying to do, make the sale or get the guy what he needs.
Bret
10-28-2004, 10:10 PM
#83
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,228
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Originally Posted by JeffK
Gotcha. Mine sounds like a collapsed lifter, but a broken spring has been mentioned.
10-29-2004, 08:40 AM
#84
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Flower Mound, TX USA
Posts: 334
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
I would really appreciate that. My noise is definately on the right side of the motor. I just have not had the time to delve into it further. I have managed to get the valve cover off and have looked for trouble. Nothing jumps out at me.
Originally Posted by blown94
Jeff you sound like you have the same problem I do. Its more of a rubbing/scraping noise, and it sounds like its coming from underneath the intake area? I thought a broken rocker at first or maybe a bent pushrod, but i checked the louder side so far, and everything was good there. Ive got a stumble through the whole range now, and the noise is getting slowly louder. Im guessing a collapsed lifter myself. The engine is coming out this weekend to replace with a 60k mile used one after i swap a cam into it so Ill let you know what I find.
10-29-2004, 10:20 AM
#85
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Clinton Twp.,MI
Posts: 402
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Sounds to me like a "bad" lifter. I have the same problem so I bought new lifters. Also try Casite oil additive. That will calm the lifter down, works for me.
10-31-2004, 04:32 AM
#89
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Location: Fort Benning, GA
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Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Originally Posted by JeffK
Just out of curiousity, did you notice your oil pressure going up and down when this happened?
JColeZ28: I've been out of town again this whole past week, been VERY busy. Will get with CM monday and let everyone know the final outcome of all this.
10-31-2004, 08:40 AM
#90
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Flower Mound, TX USA
Posts: 334
Re: Combination Motorsports 612 Spring FAILURE
Mine was bouncing from the middle of the gauge to the lower half initially.
Originally Posted by Spinner
Oil pressure was steady as a rock.
JColeZ28: I've been out of town again this whole past week, been VERY busy. Will get with CM monday and let everyone know the final outcome of all this.
JColeZ28: I've been out of town again this whole past week, been VERY busy. Will get with CM monday and let everyone know the final outcome of all this.