AiSr

Since we are located in Concord, NC, the heart of NASCAR country, I guess you are referring to us. Lloyd, I am very surprised and flattered that you would actually call in an attempt to learn what makes our cars run so well on the track and street. If you had told us who you were we might have given you some tips on charge motion and wet flow analysis. In the future, if you are going to quote us, have the courtesy to do it accurately. We have not, nor do not, tell potential customers "we could work for NASCAR but we like working for less $$$ and dealing with the street crowd". However, what we do relate to potential customers, if the subject comes up, is that we were taught port development (not just how to make "flow bench racing ports" quickly & cheaply) by working with shops that do compete at this level. Key words in our name for potential customers is " Advanced & Development". The people we are priviledged to work with actually build racing engines not virtual engines that only seem to exist on Z28 & LS1 Tech or "The Matrix".

You quoted us fairly accurately on some of "the bunch of nonsense" points. However you forgot to add what we said concerning peak dyno#'s.

We will be attending the PRI in Orlando next week and would welcome any past or potential customers to give us a call to personally meet and address any of your questions or concerns.

Ron

1racerdude

Let All Pro port the heads. They do their heads all the time for the dirt track sprint cars with a 410CID limit and they flow ungodly. They ain't cheap but they seem to be real good at making power.

stonebreaker

In this case, I'm referring to the specific Reynolds number at which the port flow goes turbulent, so in this case, the higher the critical Reynolds number, the better.

I see what you're saying about the smaller port being more likely to have better fuel atomization. Didn't think about that one - good point.

SStrokerAce

Larry, if I had the choice between Dennis and All Pro, I'd let Dennis. Dennis does a ton of sprint car stuff (hell he's located right in the middle of PA sprint car territory) and All Pro's shallow angle stuff ain't what he uses. More like a Brodix.

Bret

1racerdude

If he is any better than All Pro he's got it going on.

We used to race up there in the '60-'70's. Raced at every Grove up there. Lived in Harrisberg for 5 month's of the year and did it for 4 seasons.. That's back when Greg Weld,Opperman,Allen,and the Kinser clan and a bunch of others were running up there.

IllusionalTA

reason why i'm having dennis do the heads is get the port where i need it to be. for what i'm using the head on my car for.. Roundy round stuff tend's to be a tight rpm range i.e 7500-8500 or even higher.. I'm looking for more room than that.. and a all pro port will give me great roundy round performance, but dennis feel's he can get the head to where we need it to be for what i need... Even all pro agree's that they're cnc port wouldn't be optimal for what i wanna do.. but the casting is a kick *** starting point.. Just like i said.. it's not the most common setup..

Jeff95TA

Do any companies do CFD (computational fluid dynamics) analysis on heads? I would think it would be cost prohibitive for anyone except maybe very high end companies (like racing teams with corporate sponsorship). My company does CFD and it is not cheap for the software or the hardware.

1racerdude

The RPM range is about 4-8000,if it's handling if not ya get lower than 4000. Sometimes on a dry slick ya got to gear to where it's not loose all the time,like go off in the corner and park it till it stops sliding and ya can get down 2500 or so,but that ain't going for max power.
Just thought All Pro would be the ones but obviously not.
I have run there stuff in drag cars and it does OK for me but glad to know there is better work to be had.

NightTrain66

Ron,

I guess the quote marks were a lil confusing. I did not say that you used these words, I said that you would like people to believe this is true.

I was equally flattered when Ai started offering $1100 and $1600 head and cam packages. Add some bee hive springs and Ferrea 6000 series valves to these heads and the price goes up a bit but I am sure it would be hard to sell them at a lower price and make any profit at all.

Do you not agree with the 4 points that are made in my original post? I think more people needed to know these things and give them a better understanding of why you can't compare heads by looking at flow #'s.

Unfortunately I do not pick my customers and I just get them set up with what will work best for them. If a customer has $1400 for heads and cam and is wanting to run a high 11 with his full weight 6 speed car, 1 3/4 headers, etc, and still be VERY drivable, we can use a mild 230 duration cam and do that like Kryckters. If a customer was to come to me with a 500 lb lighter car, A3, big stall, DFI set up, BIG headers, etc and wanted to run a lil faster, I can get him set up with something a lil more aggressive.

As far as any airflow qiuestions I have or looking for "tips", I will just stick with asking Trevor Johnson or Dennis @ Air Flow Development. They seem to be thinking along the same lines as I do. I appreciate the offer though, LOL.

Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com

Honda Hunter

Great thread. Thanks everyone for coming in and sharing some great knowledge.

IllusionalTA

Z95m6

It's nice to see a sponsor making a post in the tech section just to promote his own product and then bash another fellow sponsor at the same time.

1racerdude

The bashing seems to be rather equal, if ya read the posts.

Z95m6

Unless i missed it or Ai deleted a post Lloyd started the bashing. I don't see this thread as one aimed at helping people as it is for promoting his own product and bashing another. I see you, Bret and many others tried to turn it into a worthy thread though.

1racerdude

Don't know if anybody is turning anything into anything.
LLoyd started a thread and AI came on and started gouging is the way I see it. Prior to that they hadn't been mentioned.
It doesn't matter to me if they have a knock down drag out.
It's BETWEEN THEM and nobody else.
I don't support either,but it appears like mighty good info to me.