Dart LT1 heads
02-02-2008, 07:27 PM
#121
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
Dyno testing scheduled for Feb 8th/9th/10th. One more week.
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
02-03-2008, 11:07 AM
#124
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 236
Your a lucky man Karl. After sending me the wrong heads, I found out that the LTx heads for Dart are on backorder for 2-6 week! I dont know if you saw my thread on the ISSF but there going on a 383 with a mild cam. I'd like to see 370-380rwhp out of them. BTW you have a PM.
02-03-2008, 02:27 PM
#125
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Dyno testing scheduled for Feb 8th/9th/10th. One more week.
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
Karl – Great follow up and thank you for all of the R&D you do for the LTx community.
I know this is a long shot, but if you were able to test the new AFR Eliminator street head that would be awesome! I know the general consensus (accurate at that) is that the older stuff wasn’t anything special and a well ported stocker from AI or LE would produce much more power for less or the same $.
However, based on numerous dyno results from the Gen 1 crowd, and even an endorsement from a top builders like Joe Sherman, in addition to Tony Mamo’s testimony,(he proved himself with the LS1 crew) I think it would be a very interesting & deserving evaluation.
I was under the impression that the 180cc and 195cc version of the heads came in the LT1 variety, but now it looks like the 195 is for the LT4manifold. Regardless, I think you would certainly get the cooperation from Tony for a set of loaner head(s), and as a community this could be a great opportunity to learn if these new heads are the real deal or marketing 101.
Last edited by TenSecondZ; 02-03-2008 at 02:32 PM.
02-03-2008, 05:19 PM
#126
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
Karl – Great follow up and thank you for all of the R&D you do for the LTx community.
I know this is a long shot, but if you were able to test the new AFR Eliminator street head that would be awesome! I know the general consensus (accurate at that) is that the older stuff wasn’t anything special and a well ported stocker from AI or LE would produce much more power for less or the same $.
However, based on numerous dyno results from the Gen 1 crowd, and even an endorsement from a top builders like Joe Sherman, in addition to Tony Mamo’s testimony,(he proved himself with the LS1 crew) I think it would be a very interesting & deserving evaluation.
I was under the impression that the 180cc and 195cc version of the heads came in the LT1 variety, but now it looks like the 195 is for the LT4manifold. Regardless, I think you would certainly get the cooperation from Tony for a set of loaner head(s), and as a community this could be a great opportunity to learn if these new heads are the real deal or marketing 101.
I know this is a long shot, but if you were able to test the new AFR Eliminator street head that would be awesome! I know the general consensus (accurate at that) is that the older stuff wasn’t anything special and a well ported stocker from AI or LE would produce much more power for less or the same $.
However, based on numerous dyno results from the Gen 1 crowd, and even an endorsement from a top builders like Joe Sherman, in addition to Tony Mamo’s testimony,(he proved himself with the LS1 crew) I think it would be a very interesting & deserving evaluation.
I was under the impression that the 180cc and 195cc version of the heads came in the LT1 variety, but now it looks like the 195 is for the LT4manifold. Regardless, I think you would certainly get the cooperation from Tony for a set of loaner head(s), and as a community this could be a great opportunity to learn if these new heads are the real deal or marketing 101.
Karl
02-03-2008, 09:39 PM
#127
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 2,640
02-03-2008, 10:27 PM
#128
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 3,245
Dyno testing scheduled for Feb 8th/9th/10th. One more week.
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
383LT1 with GM846 cam, (Crane 109831) and bone stock Dart Pro 1 180cc heads. (these cost $1300 via Jegs).
This motor will have an Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and one test plan is to see the power differences between stock GM LT1 intake and Edelbrock intake.
Car Craft will get all of the testing info to include in their future LT1 tech articles, (August issue). Support Car Craft magazine guys because they are full steam ahead concerning LT1 motor tech.
Karl Ellwein
02-04-2008, 05:12 AM
#129
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
I'm a big believer in heat transfer and fluid flow so I'm not doubing anthing until I see it.
Speed Deomon 24 I'm probably testing a stock LT1 intake and not a ported intake and an Edelbrock LT1 air gap. I need to find one of my internal thermal epoxy coated LT1 intakes to test. (probably need to pull off my 350LT1 impala SS). I gotta go start pulling a ton of stuff off my junk like throttle bodies and intake manifolds in order to be ready for this weekend.
Speed Deomon 24 I'm probably testing a stock LT1 intake and not a ported intake and an Edelbrock LT1 air gap. I need to find one of my internal thermal epoxy coated LT1 intakes to test. (probably need to pull off my 350LT1 impala SS). I gotta go start pulling a ton of stuff off my junk like throttle bodies and intake manifolds in order to be ready for this weekend.
02-11-2008, 01:12 AM
#130
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
Results
Sorry, not enough time to test intake manifolds.
Test of LT1 with Dart Heads:
The engine: LT1 383 with Mahle flat top pistons at 12.0:1 static compression ratio, .036" quench, box stock, out-of-the-box Dart LT1 Pro 1 heads, GM 846 cam, (A.K.A. Crane 109831), Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and 58mm Holley throttle body.
Dyno tuning by Alex of Lethal Injection near Cleveland Ohio using F.A.S.T. bank-to-bank and 42lb/hr SVO injectors,
DTS engine dyno in Concord North Carolina provided by Ron and Phil at Advanced Induction:
440 corrected horse power at 5800rpm
454 corrected torque at 4600rpm
I guessed and hoped for 450hp/450tq and came pretty close to that, (have had the GM 846 cam in numerous engine combos and love the versatility of that cam).
The Dart heads are not bad but box-stock, like any other head, leave room for vast improvement. I think they are a great head for a mild cam like the GM 846. I also think that if any cam more aggressive than something like the GM 846 were used then the installed Dart valve springs, (Comp 987), would require an upgrade.
Link to motor build
Karl
Test of LT1 with Dart Heads:
The engine: LT1 383 with Mahle flat top pistons at 12.0:1 static compression ratio, .036" quench, box stock, out-of-the-box Dart LT1 Pro 1 heads, GM 846 cam, (A.K.A. Crane 109831), Edelbrock LT1 intake manifold and 58mm Holley throttle body.
Dyno tuning by Alex of Lethal Injection near Cleveland Ohio using F.A.S.T. bank-to-bank and 42lb/hr SVO injectors,
DTS engine dyno in Concord North Carolina provided by Ron and Phil at Advanced Induction:
440 corrected horse power at 5800rpm
454 corrected torque at 4600rpm
I guessed and hoped for 450hp/450tq and came pretty close to that, (have had the GM 846 cam in numerous engine combos and love the versatility of that cam).
The Dart heads are not bad but box-stock, like any other head, leave room for vast improvement. I think they are a great head for a mild cam like the GM 846. I also think that if any cam more aggressive than something like the GM 846 were used then the installed Dart valve springs, (Comp 987), would require an upgrade.
Link to motor build
Karl
Last edited by quickSS; 08-16-2008 at 11:47 AM. Reason: fixed typo
02-11-2008, 10:56 AM
#132
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Elkton, Va
Posts: 568
Thanks for the update Karl. Those are decent #'s. You mentioned the one issue that I have with most out of box assembled heads and that's the valve train. I guess that's why I lean towards bare heads. It may cost a tad more, but for me it insures that both valvetrain quality (because I know what parts are used) and stability are what they are supposed to be.
02-11-2008, 02:38 PM
#134
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
That's awesome. ~380rwhp out of an engine with great idle characteristics and a cam that won't break the valvetrain apart. The TQ curve is sweet as hell, and would make for an outrageously fun street car.
02-11-2008, 05:12 PM
#135
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
That motor, (with it's sorta small cam), is really good for a boat, (I mean an Impala SS). Probably be hard to run top ET with it but it should be a street cruiser.
Thanks for going easy on me guys. I knew it would not have the power we keep hearing for the top combos people are running today and would be sorta dull but it's raw and real numbers.
I had a nice Ai TFS headed 383 there with a street solid roller and it made 500 + hp from 5900rpm to 7200rpm---(weeee!). And the torque did not start to dive until 6000 rpm (440 - 460lb-ft). And Rick Abare's motor made at least 100 more horses than mine. LOL!
I do have the rest of the dyno data on the Dart head motor and am trying to screen capture or find another way to give the other data points. The dyno sweep was probably started below 4000rpm but I only have the data from 4000 to 6200.
The Dart head 846 cam motor is 400hp or above from 4700 rpm until my data stops at 6200 rpm with 431 hp. Torque is 400lb-ft or higher from 4000rpm to 5800rpm. I'll post the raw data soon.
Net trip down to Concord will have more testing of mostly Ai heads (for our personal consumption) and of intake manifolds for my curiosity. The dyno was really booked solid this past weekend so we did 3 motors in one day and it dang near wore me out.
Karl
PS: see if this link works. Its an .mht conversion from MS excel
http://www.ellweinengines.com/DynoTe...rt383gm846.mht
Thanks for going easy on me guys. I knew it would not have the power we keep hearing for the top combos people are running today and would be sorta dull but it's raw and real numbers.
I had a nice Ai TFS headed 383 there with a street solid roller and it made 500 + hp from 5900rpm to 7200rpm---(weeee!). And the torque did not start to dive until 6000 rpm (440 - 460lb-ft). And Rick Abare's motor made at least 100 more horses than mine. LOL!
I do have the rest of the dyno data on the Dart head motor and am trying to screen capture or find another way to give the other data points. The dyno sweep was probably started below 4000rpm but I only have the data from 4000 to 6200.
The Dart head 846 cam motor is 400hp or above from 4700 rpm until my data stops at 6200 rpm with 431 hp. Torque is 400lb-ft or higher from 4000rpm to 5800rpm. I'll post the raw data soon.
Net trip down to Concord will have more testing of mostly Ai heads (for our personal consumption) and of intake manifolds for my curiosity. The dyno was really booked solid this past weekend so we did 3 motors in one day and it dang near wore me out.
Karl
PS: see if this link works. Its an .mht conversion from MS excel
http://www.ellweinengines.com/DynoTe...rt383gm846.mht
Last edited by quickSS; 02-11-2008 at 05:24 PM.