Firestone quotes me $2,000+ to pass emissions
06-11-2008, 04:05 PM
#16
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Oh, I just remembered that they said that one of the reasons they came to that conclusion is because when they turned the car off the fuel pressure went straight down instead of hanging around for 24 hours like it's supposed to. Is that correct?
06-11-2008, 04:15 PM
#17
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Not sure I understand....Here in Oregon, you have to pass every couple years in order to get your registration. If you don't pass, you don't pay. And, of course you don't get it registered until you do pass. I have been to some stations where the car failed to pass and so I immediately took the car to another checking station and once in awhile it would pass at the 2nd station.
Also, only certain areas in Oregon require testing. And I believe really old vehicles don't need to pass since they are pre-pollution control manufactured.
Once I failed to pass because the PCM tuner deleted the readouts of the pcm and the testers couldn't read the output. Had to have it retuned by PCMFORLESS who uncovered the readouts and it passed. So make sure if you get a PCM performance tune that the readouts are not concealed in the process. JMHO
I have 2 PCMs---a stocker just in case the tuned one doesn't pass or in case my tuned one goes to hell. Just good insurance at a good price.
Also, only certain areas in Oregon require testing. And I believe really old vehicles don't need to pass since they are pre-pollution control manufactured.
Once I failed to pass because the PCM tuner deleted the readouts of the pcm and the testers couldn't read the output. Had to have it retuned by PCMFORLESS who uncovered the readouts and it passed. So make sure if you get a PCM performance tune that the readouts are not concealed in the process. JMHO
I have 2 PCMs---a stocker just in case the tuned one doesn't pass or in case my tuned one goes to hell. Just good insurance at a good price.
06-11-2008, 04:19 PM
#18
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I don't believe that is entirely correct. If your fp bleeds off imediately, it probably has more to do with the pump or the regulator rather than the injectors.
Injuneer, Shoe, or someone else knows more about that. JMHO
Injuneer, Shoe, or someone else knows more about that. JMHO
06-11-2008, 05:41 PM
#19
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But... you indicate "pumping the gas" helps. The only thing that accomplishes is opening up the air flow to dry out excess fuel that may have accumulated in the cylinders. If it is leaky injectors dumping fuel after the engine shuts off, the correct way to start the engine is to put the accel pedal fully on the floor and hold it there until it starts. That puts the PCM in "clear flood" mode.
If the injectors are actually leaking, you can pull the rails up with the injectors intact, and turn the key to prime the fuel pump (do not try and start the engine). Look for drips from the injectors to determine if they are leaking.
If you had a bad check valve in the fuel pump, you would not have to put your accel pedal on the floor. You would just have to turn the key on and off quickly, 3 or 4 times to build pressure. Then it should start immediately.
You need to determine the problem before spending any $$$$.
What "failed" on the emissions check? Give us the numbers.
06-11-2008, 06:08 PM
#21
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thats the Fuel pressure regulator being bad... NOT injectors....
seen it a few times on these f bodys.
06-11-2008, 09:14 PM
#23
I'd look into replacing your cat before spending money on fuel injectors.
Leave firestone to changing your tires and doing alignments. Anything more than that you need to take your car to a pro who knows what they are doing.
Leave firestone to changing your tires and doing alignments. Anything more than that you need to take your car to a pro who knows what they are doing.
06-11-2008, 09:24 PM
#24
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Rapid bleed down of the fuel pressure on shutoff can be the injectors, fuel pump check valve, or the fuel pressure regulator. Regulator is generally easy to spot, because there will be fuel in the vacuum compensation line.
High HC and CO is the result of running rich, or the engine running very cold. Could also be a defective cat, but I wouldn't just start dropping money on parts to see what works. Dripping injectors would cause high HC. But the fact that both HC and CO are elevated would lean more toward running rich.
Did they check NOx?
I'd try to data log it, and look at the long term fuel corrections in the Cells that correspond to the test conditions. Elevated long terms may indicate a "false" lean conditon, resulting from misfires, exhaust leaks before the O2 sensors, or faulty O2 sensors.
Lots of possibilities.... you have to rule them out one at a time.
High HC and CO is the result of running rich, or the engine running very cold. Could also be a defective cat, but I wouldn't just start dropping money on parts to see what works. Dripping injectors would cause high HC. But the fact that both HC and CO are elevated would lean more toward running rich.
Did they check NOx?
I'd try to data log it, and look at the long term fuel corrections in the Cells that correspond to the test conditions. Elevated long terms may indicate a "false" lean conditon, resulting from misfires, exhaust leaks before the O2 sensors, or faulty O2 sensors.
Lots of possibilities.... you have to rule them out one at a time.
06-11-2008, 09:29 PM
#25
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Inspect your fuel pressure regulator by pulling the vacuum line off and look for fuel leaking from regulator. If it leaks, fuel will be drawn in through the vacuum line causing a rich condition and possible high hydrocarbons resulting in a failed inspection. I seriously doubt all your injectors are bleeding off fuel pressure. It's either your regulator or your pump (check valve). Basically everything ^^^ he said.
06-12-2008, 09:02 AM
#26
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Location: Maryland
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YOu paid them to diagnose your car, if you can prove they gave you a wrong diagnosies then damn right you can get your money back, and if i was you i wouldnt leave their without it. Did you pay by credit card? If so you call them and they will help you get the money back.
sounds like a plan. I don't know how far that'd get me in getting my money back though. haha
06-12-2008, 06:23 PM
#27
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Hey guys, I'm not very experienced with cars so I was wondering if you could help me out with this problem. I went to Firestone to get my car tested for emissions today and it failed. I had them run a diagnosis on it and they said that the problem was due to the Multi port fuel injectors.
They said that for a FJ164 Multi Port Injector, it would cost $208 EACH. So 8 of them, plus labor and taxes, would cost over 2 grand. I was wondering if that was right? I checked out ws6store, and they had injectors at sets of 8 for under $300. I was wondering if these will do the same job, and if they will allow me to pass Emissions?
I'm really undecided about what to do next. I was wondering if anyone could help me shed some light on the matter. Thanks a bunch for the help, I appreciate it.
They said that for a FJ164 Multi Port Injector, it would cost $208 EACH. So 8 of them, plus labor and taxes, would cost over 2 grand. I was wondering if that was right? I checked out ws6store, and they had injectors at sets of 8 for under $300. I was wondering if these will do the same job, and if they will allow me to pass Emissions?
I'm really undecided about what to do next. I was wondering if anyone could help me shed some light on the matter. Thanks a bunch for the help, I appreciate it.
They're really screwing with you, I hope you don't give them a cent. An injectory MAY be faulty, but id put money on the fuel pressure regulator or many many other things before deciding its all 8 injectors. (It sounds like a FPR thing IMO so far but thats just a guess)
You need a proper diagnosis by a shop that knows the motor.
06-12-2008, 06:41 PM
#28
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To me, it sounds like 1 or more injectors are stuck open causing the car to run extremely rich and not pass emissions.
If it were the FPR or the FPCV, it wouldn't necessarily cause the car to fail emissions.
A couple of years ago I was helping a friend out with his 86 Z28 since the FP would bleed off instantly. We narrowed it down to 2 leaky injectors, bad FPR, and a bad check ball in the fuel pump.
If it were the FPR or the FPCV, it wouldn't necessarily cause the car to fail emissions.
A couple of years ago I was helping a friend out with his 86 Z28 since the FP would bleed off instantly. We narrowed it down to 2 leaky injectors, bad FPR, and a bad check ball in the fuel pump.
06-12-2008, 06:42 PM
#29
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Thanks for all of your help guys. I've been at work so I couldn't reply to all the posts. I'm in the process of finding a reputable shop in CT that knows what they're doing. They seem to be harder to find than a good lawyer. Once I get another diagnosis and figure out what's really wrong I'll keep you guys posted. I appreciate your opinions and if there are more please let me know. They help a lot. If anyone knows a good shop in the CT area that would also help me out. Thanks once again.
06-12-2008, 07:45 PM
#30
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Maybe tires. They screwed up my wifes alignment and cost me a set of new front tires for her minivan that lasted less than a year. I don't buy cheap tires either. Once for the hell of it 12 years ago, I asked how much to change the plugs in my Z. I knew it wasn't cheap by any means, but he looks me straight in the eye and says almost $450. Then he looks at me a little funny when I busted out laughing. I just couldn't help it.