head bolts...
08-30-2006, 06:06 PM
#31
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by 1racerdude
They are NOT TTY bolts.
They can be reused a bunch without buying new every time.
They can be reused a bunch without buying new every time.
08-30-2006, 06:13 PM
#32
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by bowtiepwr
>are you sure your no refering to the head studs and not the bolts? I have yet to find it where it says you can reuse their head bolts, but the head studs yeah!
What I am referring to the many sets I have used on customer and personal builds and the set I used last week.
Read the torque part I posted from ARP's site.ARP DOES NOT recommend using angle method to tighted their bolts.
08-30-2006, 08:27 PM
#33
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by bowtiepwr
>are you sure your no refering to the head studs and not the bolts? I have yet to find it where it says you can reuse their head bolts, but the head studs yeah!
The ARP teflon based sealer can be substituted for the ARP moly lube because it was designed to have the same friction coefficient - that's why they both have the same torque spec. But, damn, if you're building an expensive engine - would it kill ya to have a tube of each?
Personally, I use studs with the sealer in the engine threads and the moly on the nuts & washers. If I was using bolts, I would use the sealer in the threads and the moly on the washers & bolt heads - moly is easier to clean up.
08-30-2006, 08:40 PM
#34
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by Kevin Blown 95 TA
The ARP bolts can be reused a few times.
The ARP Teflon based sealer can be substituted for the ARP moly lube because it was designed to have the same friction coefficient - that's why they both have the same torque spec. But, damn, if you're building an expensive engine - would it kill ya to have a tube of each?
Personally, I use studs with the sealer in the engine threads and the moly on the nuts & washers. If I was using bolts, I would use the sealer in the threads and the moly on the washers & bolt heads - moly is easier to clean up.
The ARP Teflon based sealer can be substituted for the ARP moly lube because it was designed to have the same friction coefficient - that's why they both have the same torque spec. But, damn, if you're building an expensive engine - would it kill ya to have a tube of each?
Personally, I use studs with the sealer in the engine threads and the moly on the nuts & washers. If I was using bolts, I would use the sealer in the threads and the moly on the washers & bolt heads - moly is easier to clean up.
Generally when I use studs it's for a trailer queen. I will get everything ready and put the studs in with Locktite Bearing mount(the green stuff). Slap a gasket on and the head real quick and torque it down. Then let it set overnight and remove the head.
Ya have permanent studs that don't leak,will not unscrew when taken apart and are always in line with the bolt holes. They also won't screw down on the shoulder.
If ya need to take them out,heat the surrounding area to 300* and they come right out can be cleaned and reinstalled. I heat mine in the oven at the machine shop.
I then use moly lube on the nut and washer. Wiping off the excess as ya don't want the grit in the molly to get to the bearings.
Last edited by 1racerdude; 08-30-2006 at 08:42 PM.
08-31-2006, 06:59 AM
#35
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by bowtiepwr
>so you will use the thread sealer under the head bolt "head side"?
and ARP did say that was OK for the torque proceedure?
they do a different job from one another... one seals and the other lubricates.
and ARP did say that was OK for the torque proceedure?
they do a different job from one another... one seals and the other lubricates.
I specifically asked if both were needed. Both representatives that I talked to (Alan was the name of the last person if you wish to verify) indicated that ARP thread sealer is a Teflon based thread sealant that reduces the friction between the threads. The literature that comes with the bolts specifies use of the moly lube OR the thread sealer if the threads are head bolts. Not both I was concerned myself which is why I consulted ARP and they indicated use of the thread sealant on the threads and under the head of the bolt. Here is an excerpt from ARP. "It is important to note that the friction coefficients of lubricants vary dramatically, making it difficult to consistently produce the exact amount of stress within the fastener to clamp the components together. That’s why ARP developed an ultra-consistent lubricant and recommend the use of our premium grade ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT or THREAD SEALER in order to precisely duplicate the recommended tightening specifications provided with all ARP® fasteners." There is nothing WRONG with using both but its not necessary.
08-31-2006, 01:00 PM
#36
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Re: head bolts...
yep metalbeast, that is exactly how I did them. I didnt even need to put more on the head bolt, just needed to put a good ammount on the threads and they excess rolls up the bolt to the head. I did the 3 step method (22ft/lbs, 44 ft/lbs, 65 ft/lbs) and no problems, looks perfect.
thanks for all the replies
thanks for all the replies
08-31-2006, 01:27 PM
#37
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Posts: 261
Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by Kevin Blown 95 TA
The ARP bolts can be reused a few times.
The ARP teflon based sealer can be substituted for the ARP moly lube because it was designed to have the same friction coefficient - that's why they both have the same torque spec. But, damn, if you're building an expensive engine - would it kill ya to have a tube of each?
Personally, I use studs with the sealer in the engine threads and the moly on the nuts & washers. If I was using bolts, I would use the sealer in the threads and the moly on the washers & bolt heads - moly is easier to clean up.
The ARP teflon based sealer can be substituted for the ARP moly lube because it was designed to have the same friction coefficient - that's why they both have the same torque spec. But, damn, if you're building an expensive engine - would it kill ya to have a tube of each?
Personally, I use studs with the sealer in the engine threads and the moly on the nuts & washers. If I was using bolts, I would use the sealer in the threads and the moly on the washers & bolt heads - moly is easier to clean up.
08-31-2006, 02:00 PM
#38
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by METALBEAST
If thats true then WHY? Thats my whole point. Why by BOTH when you CLEARLY only need one? Just my $0.02
08-31-2006, 02:10 PM
#39
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by Kevin Blown 95 TA
I used the moly on the mains and rod bolts and oil pump stud, and under the bolt heads and like I said, it's easier to clean up later. The thread sealer is a gooey mess, so I only use it where I need to. But, yeah, I coulda used the sealer all over the engine, I guess. To me, $7 or $10 isn't much compared to my $750 rods or my $1000 crank or my $2000 block... so I bought both
Well you got me there. I did not do my bottom end on this one. Just my topend. I SHOULD have bought the moly lube for the oil pump though. Touche'
08-31-2006, 02:42 PM
#40
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Re: head bolts...
>I will say I did not know that the sealer could be used for both sealant and lubricant, but I still would have bought and used both... got money to burn (yeah right).
But where can you find the statement from ARP that their head bolts may get reused after torquing?
But where can you find the statement from ARP that their head bolts may get reused after torquing?
08-31-2006, 03:20 PM
#41
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by bowtiepwr
>I will say I did not know that the sealer could be used for both sealant and lubricant, but I still would have bought and used both... got money to burn (yeah right).
But where can you find the statement from ARP that their head bolts may get reused after torquing?
But where can you find the statement from ARP that their head bolts may get reused after torquing?
It is understood that bolts that are NOT TTY are reusable.
Ya don't change your lug bolts/studs every time ya have a flat or buy new tires, or any other bolt in the car.
If ya don't want to take the words of myself and others here, call ARP and ask.
This is from ARP site:
We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.
This is for rod bolts but it is ALL the same.
If they didn't intend for them to be reused,WHY do they recommend ya torque them 5 times before the final torque to burnish the threads.
If they weren't reusable then ya couldn't torque them 5 times.
08-31-2006, 05:37 PM
#42
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by 1racerdude
The same place ya find head bolt use on a SBC from '55-'85.It's understood.
It is understood that bolts that are NOT TTY are reusable.
Ya don't change your lug bolts/studs every time ya have a flat or buy new tires, or any other bolt in the car.
If ya don't want to take the words of myself and others here, call ARP and ask.
This is from ARP site:
We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.
This is for rod bolts but it is ALL the same.
If they didn't intend for them to be reused,WHY do they recommend ya torque them 5 times before the final torque to burnish the threads.
If they weren't reusable then ya couldn't torque them 5 times.
It is understood that bolts that are NOT TTY are reusable.
Ya don't change your lug bolts/studs every time ya have a flat or buy new tires, or any other bolt in the car.
If ya don't want to take the words of myself and others here, call ARP and ask.
This is from ARP site:
We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.
This is for rod bolts but it is ALL the same.
If they didn't intend for them to be reused,WHY do they recommend ya torque them 5 times before the final torque to burnish the threads.
If they weren't reusable then ya couldn't torque them 5 times.
08-31-2006, 06:02 PM
#43
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Location: western, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,430
Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by 1racerdude
The same place ya find head bolt use on a SBC from '55-'85.It's understood.
It is understood that bolts that are NOT TTY are reusable.
Ya don't change your lug bolts/studs every time ya have a flat or buy new tires, or any other bolt in the car.
If ya don't want to take the words of myself and others here, call ARP and ask.
This is from ARP site:
We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.
This is for rod bolts but it is ALL the same.
If they didn't intend for them to be reused,WHY do they recommend ya torque them 5 times before the final torque to burnish the threads.
If they weren't reusable then ya couldn't torque them 5 times.
It is understood that bolts that are NOT TTY are reusable.
Ya don't change your lug bolts/studs every time ya have a flat or buy new tires, or any other bolt in the car.
If ya don't want to take the words of myself and others here, call ARP and ask.
This is from ARP site:
We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.
This is for rod bolts but it is ALL the same.
If they didn't intend for them to be reused,WHY do they recommend ya torque them 5 times before the final torque to burnish the threads.
If they weren't reusable then ya couldn't torque them 5 times.
I just rather read it myself no need to take your word for it!
Who are you anyway?
If this upsets you don't respond!
I just rather read it and if you had a link then that would be cool if not don't respond... period.
Unless you think I should take your word (like that of God) and trust your word on something I spent a bunch of $$$ on because you said to!?!
I am not the type to trust the word of people, unless there is absolutely little choice.
08-31-2006, 06:31 PM
#44
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Posts: 2,684
Re: head bolts...
Head bolts have always been reusable until the TTY ones got popular 10 years ago or so. It is taken for granted. Consider, also, that if this were not the case, ARP would HAVE to have a disclaimer/warning that their bolts had a TTY torque sequence and could only be used once, then thrown away. Also consider that, if that were the case, no one would buy them.
08-31-2006, 06:48 PM
#45
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Re: head bolts...
Originally Posted by Kevin Blown 95 TA
Head bolts have always been reusable until the TTY ones got popular 10 years ago or so. It is taken for granted. Consider, also, that if this were not the case, ARP would HAVE to have a disclaimer/warning that their bolts had a TTY torque sequence and could only be used once, then thrown away. Also consider that, if that were the case, no one would buy them.