hey guys check this out and see if you guys can help
03-24-2008, 07:34 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
hey guys check this out and see if you guys can help
Hey guys there is a thread over on kyhorsepower about my car, we are having problems with it falling off at 5900 on the dyno and the valves floating out, this thing is giving me fits and I have spent alot of good money and my buddy has spent some of his own money trying to help me too, because he's a racer too, but a ford man, but wants me to have something that runs good, we did alot of research, before we put this car together and thought we went the best way we could for the money and we are still having problems.....I just am wondering what your thoughts are on this subject, because I know there is alot of LT1 guys on here that are flying, there is a couple of threads about my car on there, so if you don't mind and if you have time read some of this stuff and see what you guys think......I know with all your great minds and experience we can get this figured out, I want to go racing and right now its not looking good......please help guys if you can, thank you very much.......
Doug Wireman
http://www.kyhorsepower.com/forums1/...howtopic=32611
Doug Wireman
http://www.kyhorsepower.com/forums1/...howtopic=32611
03-24-2008, 08:11 AM
#5
03-24-2008, 10:41 AM
#7
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
Page 1 from Kyhorsepower
Dougs car is still falling off at 58-5900 after correcting and shimming valve springs, who wants to help? Either cam is degree'd wrong, push rods to long, spark off or just needs more spring?
I think cam is advanced and duration is small and killing it???
Phil???
Eric???
We want it fixed before the race
Steve Buckley
+Quote Post
black96z28
This thing is driving me nuts , it should be pulling to 6200 or 6300 without a problem, I sure would like to know whats wrong I need help and want it fixed any suggestions come on guys help me get it right...........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Mar 22 2008, 10:46 PM
Post #3
What cam did you install? Have the heads been milled? Did you measure for the pushrods? What about your rocker arms, what kind, how'd you set the lash?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 08:07 AM
Post #4
the cam is a custom grid from Bret Bauer racing, the push rods are what Eric picked out and put them in the car, he put 8308-16 hi-tech 5/16" 7.450" oil restricting from Comp..... , the rockers are pro mags 1.6 rockers 7/16 stud....the heads have been milled.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:08 AM
Post #5
Those pushrods aren't right, those are a +.050 for the LSX engines. No way you should need a pushrod thats longer. Stock length is 7.200, mine on my new motor measured at 7.100 with milled heads and decked block. You should measure, but I would say with whats been done a stock length will do fine.
What in the world was the reasoning for him to select that pushrod for your car?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 09:24 AM
Post #6
We thought the same but Eric is the schooled guru, I still think the cam is advanced?
Eric what ya think?
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:52 AM
Post #7
Those are for LSX's, simple as that. Stock length on an LT1 is 7.200, he must have thought they were the same. I'd get those outta there before something is damaged,.....if it isn't already, and find someone who knows their way around that engine.
Whats the cam setup on, I know most of his cams I've seen specs on are real aggressive. Are you sure everything was installed properly(cam, timing gears, opti, etc.)?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:06 AM
Post #8
I was worried about this, what do I need to do and whats should we get to replace those pushrods with different ones.....help, I wanted to be able to run in the shootout, but it looks like I may have more problems now because of simple mistakes made.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 11:02 AM
Post #9
If there isn't any damage to anything a simple pushrod change will fix that issue. The pushrod being too long will cause some issues but it may or may not be the cause of everything going on. I'd change them out and see what happens, its a simple place to start.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 11:19 AM
Post #10
Hey Eric what do you think, could this be the problem, do you think maybe the pushrods that you got may have not been right for this setup, please lets get this thing lined out........its either the pushrods or the cam is degreeed wrong or something.......we need to get this fixed............
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 12:59 PM
Post #11
I know we have spent several hundred dollars trying to fix a problem and have gotten no where! I gace $350.00 of my own money for tunes, dyno time and parts myself!
So much for my helping you with reccomendations
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SStrokerAce
post Yesterday, 01:01 PM
Post #12
Yeah once I found out about the oil restricting pushrods that were about a 1/4" too long that's the same thing I suggested!
Seems odd that guys with the same lobes, same springs can get this to run to 7000rpm without valve float. Now the good news is if you keep those pushrods in there it will wear the guides extremely fast AND break them so it's something I would get fixed ASAP. Someone needs to measure for the correct length and then just pick up a set of the Chromoly TrickFlow PR's from Summit.
Hell who knows the cam could also be advanced at this point, hell the springs were installed wrong, the wrong length pushrods are in there might as well have the cam a tooth off.
Bret
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 01:01 PM
Post #13
Yeah, here i have spent another $100 for a dyno run, I have spent money for new Springs from Bret Bauer, I have spent more money getting them installed, plus fuel to get all this stuff done, and now it looks like after getting the Springs at the right install height and shimmed correctly, its all coming down to pushrods.....I just want to know who suggested those and why, Eric you said that you would get the pushrods, so i just let you go ahead and do that, but now people are thinking those are wrong and its causing it go over into the exhaust side to far, whats the dealsounds to me someone has made big mistakes.......or maybe I made the biggest one of all.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 01:42 PM
Post #14
Brett the springs are not the problem, I still think the cam is advanced but Eric will have to chime in on this, he installed all of it. I thought he would install correct the correct pushrods and can assure you these will be changed next, just these dyno sessions are getting expensive .
Sorry Doug but we will get her fixed
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 03:41 PM
Post #15
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 01:01 PM) *
Yeah here i have spent another $100 for a dyno run, I have spent money for new Springs from Bret Bauer, I have spent more money getting them installed, plus fuel to get all this stuff done, and now it looks like after getting the Springs at the right install height and shimmed correctly, its all coming down to pushrods.....I just want to know who suggested those and why, Eric you said that you would get the pushrods, so i just let you go ahead and do that, but now people are thinking those are wrong and its causing it go over into the exhaust side to far, whats the dealsounds to me someone has made big mistakes.......or maybe I made the biggest one of all.......
Theres not much thinking to do?? The pushrods are wrong.....bottom line. Change them out and see where your at
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
Page1
I think cam is advanced and duration is small and killing it???
Phil???
Eric???
We want it fixed before the race
Steve Buckley
+Quote Post
black96z28
This thing is driving me nuts , it should be pulling to 6200 or 6300 without a problem, I sure would like to know whats wrong I need help and want it fixed any suggestions come on guys help me get it right...........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Mar 22 2008, 10:46 PM
Post #3
What cam did you install? Have the heads been milled? Did you measure for the pushrods? What about your rocker arms, what kind, how'd you set the lash?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 08:07 AM
Post #4
the cam is a custom grid from Bret Bauer racing, the push rods are what Eric picked out and put them in the car, he put 8308-16 hi-tech 5/16" 7.450" oil restricting from Comp..... , the rockers are pro mags 1.6 rockers 7/16 stud....the heads have been milled.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:08 AM
Post #5
Those pushrods aren't right, those are a +.050 for the LSX engines. No way you should need a pushrod thats longer. Stock length is 7.200, mine on my new motor measured at 7.100 with milled heads and decked block. You should measure, but I would say with whats been done a stock length will do fine.
What in the world was the reasoning for him to select that pushrod for your car?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 09:24 AM
Post #6
We thought the same but Eric is the schooled guru, I still think the cam is advanced?
Eric what ya think?
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:52 AM
Post #7
Those are for LSX's, simple as that. Stock length on an LT1 is 7.200, he must have thought they were the same. I'd get those outta there before something is damaged,.....if it isn't already, and find someone who knows their way around that engine.
Whats the cam setup on, I know most of his cams I've seen specs on are real aggressive. Are you sure everything was installed properly(cam, timing gears, opti, etc.)?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:06 AM
Post #8
I was worried about this, what do I need to do and whats should we get to replace those pushrods with different ones.....help, I wanted to be able to run in the shootout, but it looks like I may have more problems now because of simple mistakes made.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 11:02 AM
Post #9
If there isn't any damage to anything a simple pushrod change will fix that issue. The pushrod being too long will cause some issues but it may or may not be the cause of everything going on. I'd change them out and see what happens, its a simple place to start.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 11:19 AM
Post #10
Hey Eric what do you think, could this be the problem, do you think maybe the pushrods that you got may have not been right for this setup, please lets get this thing lined out........its either the pushrods or the cam is degreeed wrong or something.......we need to get this fixed............
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 12:59 PM
Post #11
I know we have spent several hundred dollars trying to fix a problem and have gotten no where! I gace $350.00 of my own money for tunes, dyno time and parts myself!
So much for my helping you with reccomendations
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SStrokerAce
post Yesterday, 01:01 PM
Post #12
Yeah once I found out about the oil restricting pushrods that were about a 1/4" too long that's the same thing I suggested!
Seems odd that guys with the same lobes, same springs can get this to run to 7000rpm without valve float. Now the good news is if you keep those pushrods in there it will wear the guides extremely fast AND break them so it's something I would get fixed ASAP. Someone needs to measure for the correct length and then just pick up a set of the Chromoly TrickFlow PR's from Summit.
Hell who knows the cam could also be advanced at this point, hell the springs were installed wrong, the wrong length pushrods are in there might as well have the cam a tooth off.
Bret
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 01:01 PM
Post #13
Yeah, here i have spent another $100 for a dyno run, I have spent money for new Springs from Bret Bauer, I have spent more money getting them installed, plus fuel to get all this stuff done, and now it looks like after getting the Springs at the right install height and shimmed correctly, its all coming down to pushrods.....I just want to know who suggested those and why, Eric you said that you would get the pushrods, so i just let you go ahead and do that, but now people are thinking those are wrong and its causing it go over into the exhaust side to far, whats the dealsounds to me someone has made big mistakes.......or maybe I made the biggest one of all.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 01:42 PM
Post #14
Brett the springs are not the problem, I still think the cam is advanced but Eric will have to chime in on this, he installed all of it. I thought he would install correct the correct pushrods and can assure you these will be changed next, just these dyno sessions are getting expensive .
Sorry Doug but we will get her fixed
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 03:41 PM
Post #15
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 01:01 PM) *
Yeah here i have spent another $100 for a dyno run, I have spent money for new Springs from Bret Bauer, I have spent more money getting them installed, plus fuel to get all this stuff done, and now it looks like after getting the Springs at the right install height and shimmed correctly, its all coming down to pushrods.....I just want to know who suggested those and why, Eric you said that you would get the pushrods, so i just let you go ahead and do that, but now people are thinking those are wrong and its causing it go over into the exhaust side to far, whats the dealsounds to me someone has made big mistakes.......or maybe I made the biggest one of all.......
Theres not much thinking to do?? The pushrods are wrong.....bottom line. Change them out and see where your at
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
Page1
03-24-2008, 10:48 AM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
Page 2 from Kyhorsepower
Page 2
Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 06:27 PM
Post #16
Doug get pushrods monday
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 06:42 PM
Post #17
need to know which pushrods to get and then they are ordered, because the ones in it sure must be wrong.....
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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TravisA
post Yesterday, 07:02 PM
Post #18
Wow that is a pretty long PR. I think mine came out to 7.05 after my deck and heads were cut.
--------------------
-Travis Arthur
1994 Z28 A4, 360 LT1, 200cc AI heads,cam and intake. Tuned by Phil aka Bluecat.
1990 Chevy 2500 Suburban tow vehicle...
1999 Grand Am
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 07:38 PM
Post #19
Thats what I am coming to realize now, looks to me like, those are going to be changed asap.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 07:47 PM
Post #20
Well it may or may not fix it but it seems EVERYONE agree's way to long
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 08:25 PM
Post #21
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 06:42 PM) *
need to know which pushrods to get and then they are ordered, because the ones in it sure must be wrong.....
You need to get a 7.200 length 5/16ths pushrod
Heres the summit link to the comp hi tech pushrods(these are the ones I have FS)
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...p;autoview=sku
Another popular choice is the trickflow's
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...p;autoview=sku
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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1SICKTA
post Yesterday, 08:46 PM
Post #22
When you adj. the vavles wouldn't you know if the push rods were to long?
--------------------
Sean
88 Civic LX new daily driver
Sponsored by Scream and fly
95' TA 11.11 1/4 483rwhp 453rwtq(old setup) TUNED BY BLUECAT!
91' RS 7.88 8th 320rwhp 442rwtq
"Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even though no one else does it."
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 08:57 PM
Post #23
guys let me say something that most dont know ,he put 1 thousands longer valve in there if i remember right theres your longer push rod ,if im wrong im sorry for being in your thread but i think i remember that .
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:04 PM
Post #24
you may be right on the valves, let me check on that and I will let you know.....
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:10 PM
Post #25
QUOTE(flippy1974 @ Mar 23 2008, 08:57 PM) *
guys let me say something that most dont know ,he put 1 thousands longer valve in there if i remember right theres your longer push rod ,if im wrong im sorry for being in your thread but i think i remember that .
I thought it was a +.050 longer valve, nevertheless even if it was .100 longer he shouldn't need 7.450 length pushrod.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:11 PM
Post #26
it has ferrara 6000 series valves, intake 2.00 and exhaust 1.56 in the car........
------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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flippy1974
Rating: 0
post Yesterday, 09:11 PM
Post #27
Wait a minute.... how is that going to fix the problem at all? I'll admit the duration at .050 numbers are a bit smaller than i thought but that cam still had .600 lift on both the exhaust and duration. If you go in and add a .030 and a .020 shim yes your gonna get some more spring pressure but with that lift you could run into coil bind problems and then you could be in a huge mess. So basically it's as i thought in the beginning, that's just not enough spring to control that valvetrain. If you have to the shim the spring up even more and lose weight from the valvetrain to make your springs work with your cam combination then that just goes to show that the spring is to weak. And we also didn't use stock valves we went with a .050 longer valve and a 2.00 instead of a 1.94 so there's more added weight. I'm not downing your cam selections at all because i've heard from other good people that your **** makes power. But either way i think your going to have to start sending a better spring out with your cams to help compensate for the added valvetrain mass and cam lobes.
Doug you should go buy springs i recommended, they have more spring pressure, they use a titanium retainer and they have been proven time and time again.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 09:13 PM
Post #28
i found it ,it was 50 that the origanal post i copied and pasted .page 21 post 305
http://www.kyhorsepower.com/forums1/...howtopic=27302
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:20 PM
Post #29
DO we still need to change the pushrods, to the correct length, like what Nick has........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 09:24 PM
Post #30
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 09:20 PM) *
DO we still need to change the pushrods, to the correct length, like what Nick has........
u need to measure them to find out but i not a guru on this stuff.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 06:27 PM
Post #16
Doug get pushrods monday
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 06:42 PM
Post #17
need to know which pushrods to get and then they are ordered, because the ones in it sure must be wrong.....
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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TravisA
post Yesterday, 07:02 PM
Post #18
Wow that is a pretty long PR. I think mine came out to 7.05 after my deck and heads were cut.
--------------------
-Travis Arthur
1994 Z28 A4, 360 LT1, 200cc AI heads,cam and intake. Tuned by Phil aka Bluecat.
1990 Chevy 2500 Suburban tow vehicle...
1999 Grand Am
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 07:38 PM
Post #19
Thats what I am coming to realize now, looks to me like, those are going to be changed asap.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 07:47 PM
Post #20
Well it may or may not fix it but it seems EVERYONE agree's way to long
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 08:25 PM
Post #21
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 06:42 PM) *
need to know which pushrods to get and then they are ordered, because the ones in it sure must be wrong.....
You need to get a 7.200 length 5/16ths pushrod
Heres the summit link to the comp hi tech pushrods(these are the ones I have FS)
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...p;autoview=sku
Another popular choice is the trickflow's
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...p;autoview=sku
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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1SICKTA
post Yesterday, 08:46 PM
Post #22
When you adj. the vavles wouldn't you know if the push rods were to long?
--------------------
Sean
88 Civic LX new daily driver
Sponsored by Scream and fly
95' TA 11.11 1/4 483rwhp 453rwtq(old setup) TUNED BY BLUECAT!
91' RS 7.88 8th 320rwhp 442rwtq
"Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even though no one else does it."
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 08:57 PM
Post #23
guys let me say something that most dont know ,he put 1 thousands longer valve in there if i remember right theres your longer push rod ,if im wrong im sorry for being in your thread but i think i remember that .
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:04 PM
Post #24
you may be right on the valves, let me check on that and I will let you know.....
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:10 PM
Post #25
QUOTE(flippy1974 @ Mar 23 2008, 08:57 PM) *
guys let me say something that most dont know ,he put 1 thousands longer valve in there if i remember right theres your longer push rod ,if im wrong im sorry for being in your thread but i think i remember that .
I thought it was a +.050 longer valve, nevertheless even if it was .100 longer he shouldn't need 7.450 length pushrod.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:11 PM
Post #26
it has ferrara 6000 series valves, intake 2.00 and exhaust 1.56 in the car........
------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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flippy1974
Rating: 0
post Yesterday, 09:11 PM
Post #27
Wait a minute.... how is that going to fix the problem at all? I'll admit the duration at .050 numbers are a bit smaller than i thought but that cam still had .600 lift on both the exhaust and duration. If you go in and add a .030 and a .020 shim yes your gonna get some more spring pressure but with that lift you could run into coil bind problems and then you could be in a huge mess. So basically it's as i thought in the beginning, that's just not enough spring to control that valvetrain. If you have to the shim the spring up even more and lose weight from the valvetrain to make your springs work with your cam combination then that just goes to show that the spring is to weak. And we also didn't use stock valves we went with a .050 longer valve and a 2.00 instead of a 1.94 so there's more added weight. I'm not downing your cam selections at all because i've heard from other good people that your **** makes power. But either way i think your going to have to start sending a better spring out with your cams to help compensate for the added valvetrain mass and cam lobes.
Doug you should go buy springs i recommended, they have more spring pressure, they use a titanium retainer and they have been proven time and time again.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 09:13 PM
Post #28
i found it ,it was 50 that the origanal post i copied and pasted .page 21 post 305
http://www.kyhorsepower.com/forums1/...howtopic=27302
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 09:20 PM
Post #29
DO we still need to change the pushrods, to the correct length, like what Nick has........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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flippy1974
post Yesterday, 09:24 PM
Post #30
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 23 2008, 09:20 PM) *
DO we still need to change the pushrods, to the correct length, like what Nick has........
u need to measure them to find out but i not a guru on this stuff.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
03-24-2008, 10:57 AM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
Page 3 from Kyhorsepower
Page 3
KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:32 PM
Post #31
You really need to measure to be a 100% sure. If I were going to chance it, I would put in the stock length, re adjust my rockers(note the pattern on the tip) and go from there.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:31 PM
Post #32
Before everyone gets on here talking **** they need to know what in the hell they're talking about, i havn't had a chance to get online and everything goes straight to hell. Nobody on here i doubt even knows how to check for the correct length pushrod and you all are saying i don't know what i'm doing. When you check your pushrod length the BEST way to do it is to check the rocker arm pattern across the valve tip. The narrower the pattern the better even if it's not as centered. I used a checking pushrod and set at no telling how many lengths and got the thinnest pattern using a 7.450 (it was a little off centered towards the exhaust side but that's to be expected because everything was moved UP because of the pushrod length and valve job being sunk some to get the correct free drop because of all the mill and bigger valves). Only way to get it back towards the center and thin would be to move the whole rocker arm setup back towards the intake side like the Jesel setups do when you have a longer valve and everything on the ****ty 23* chevy stuff.
Also the cam was not degree'd in, you gave me about a $20 timing set that wasn't adjustable at all. It was installed dot to dot and if i remember correctly it was about 3 degree's advanced or so.
And the springs were not installed incorrectly, they were all installed at or around 1.800 give or take .010 which is good enough for anything. They wern't installed all over the place or any bull**** like that. You sent me probably 20 emails and that one email saying they needing to be installed at 1.750 was about a 3 months or some **** before the damn heads were put together. Nobody is gonna remember back that far, i installed the springs where i thought they should have been given the lift on the cam and the manufacturer recommendation and given the fact that i'd rather be a little low on spring pressure than have them coil bind and really be ****ed. Only thing i picked out in this whole damn build was the pushrods and the head gasket thickness, all that other **** you all gave me and told me to put it together.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:37 PM
Post #33
Also that being said jack did seem to think that given that cam is so small in duration and on like a 108 that if it's advanced even 4* which usually makes more power unless the cam is not right for the application(to small or something) that it could make it fall of that early. I still think you need the patriot golds which i recommended from the very beginning and i'd put a larger cam in that thing as well.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 10:42 PM
Post #34
Eric we just want the car to run it's best and have no idea what is going on, valve springs you said were the problem so we reshimmed and set them up correctly, now the push rods are way long and the cam is advanced? Two problems and both could kill the power
Doug take the fnnnnnn car apart tomm nite and Jack Fast and I will fix the pushrods and degree the fnn cam Im betting degreee the cam and she will spin like a *****
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:46 PM
Post #35
The push rods arn't to long. Have you all even bothered to check the sweep? You have to consider nothing about that is close to stock so it makes sense a stock length pushrod wouldn't work. The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket, valves are .050 longer, valve job sunk so that moves everything up even more, so a longer pushrod makes sense.
And 3* isn't advanced to far, most stuff runs better advanced 2 to 4 degree's unless the cam is wrong for the application.
--------------------
Eric Carey
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:48 PM
Post #36
as matter of fact Eric I order the clyoes timming set, which was the timming set that you said to order, but I wanted to get the heavy duty LT4 timing set, but you said to get the clyoes, which I did now your saying that its my fault, well its funny to me that when most of the time people buy parts and take them to someone they can put it together, with out any problems........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 10:50 PM
Post #37
OK what does it take to get this car running???
We shimmed springs up
Bret has offered to take cam back
WE WANT TO RACE AND MAKE EVERY OUNCE OF POWER THIS LT1 CAN
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:53 PM
Post #38
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 12:48 AM) *
as matter of fact Eric I order the clyoes timming set, which was the timming set that you said to order, but I wanted to get the heavy duty LT4 timing set, but you said to get the clyoes, which I did now your saying that its my fault, well its funny to me that when most of the time people buy parts and take them to someone they can put it together, with out any problems........
Doug you told me you bought the timing chain set that everybody recommended on camaroz28. I recommended a summit cloyes set that was a true solid roller that was fully adjustable from 8* advanced to 8 retarded. The one you gave me was about a $20 chain, had a solid sprocket, no adjustability at all, and wasn't a roller chain at all. It was the regular link chain.
And you know what i've yet to have any kind of problem at all when i picked the parts that ordered and knew what was going together.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:55 PM
Post #39
Thats the one I orderd from Summit, and brought to you............
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:56 PM
Post #40
QUOTE(Steve Buckley @ Mar 24 2008, 12:50 AM) *
OK what does it take to get this car running???
We shimmed springs up
Bret has offered to take cam back
WE WANT TO RACE AND MAKE EVERY OUNCE OF POWER THIS LT1 CAN
put something with about 230 or so on the intake side, about a 238 on the exhaust, keep about the same lift you had and go with something on a 110lsa with the patriot spring kit. But then after you do that you'll have to recheck the pushrod length and might have to reorder pushrods. And actually break down and buy a nice timing chian, not some kinda cheap *** $20 link bar non adjustable timing chain so you can actually put the cam in where you want it without having to drill the sprocket and **** with those damned offset dowels.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:59 PM
Post #41
Eric, thats ok, thanks for all your help, I will take it to someone else thats knows how to work on these cars........you may be able to port heads alittle but you sure don't know much about valve train geometry.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 11:03 PM
Post #42
DOUG A CREDIT CARD and a reputable feller that will help you get this junk *** chevy fixed
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 11:05 PM
Post #43
I bet Brett will send us a larger cam and he has offered to take back all his ****.
Lets get her fixed so I can wipe my fords nose up that chevys ***
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 11:08 PM
Post #44
the part number for the timimg chain is clo-c-3039 from summit that was $87.39 is what I ordered and I believe I have it in a e-mail that you sent me too........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 11:19 PM
Post #45
Yea that part number sounds right but that's not what you gave me and that's not what went in your car. If you dont believe me pull that timing cover off and take a look at that bad boy, nothing double roller or adjustable about it at all. It was about a $20 setup.
And has anyone even thought about checking the sweep on that thing? It was checked with a solid lifter, and a checking pushrod and to get the narrowest possible sweep that's what it took. It's not magic, the narrower the better. Some people would rather have it more centered even if it's wider but those people are dumbasses. If you think about it the narrower the pattern the more the rocker arm is pushing directly down on the valve which translate into the most possible lift at the valve which makes for the most power. That's what you got, and no matter what your still working with a 23* chevy so your valvetrain is ****ed from the get go. Nothing i did was wrong, i checked and double checked everything so i know what in the hell is going on.
--------------------
Eric Carey
KY95Z28
post Yesterday, 09:32 PM
Post #31
You really need to measure to be a 100% sure. If I were going to chance it, I would put in the stock length, re adjust my rockers(note the pattern on the tip) and go from there.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:31 PM
Post #32
Before everyone gets on here talking **** they need to know what in the hell they're talking about, i havn't had a chance to get online and everything goes straight to hell. Nobody on here i doubt even knows how to check for the correct length pushrod and you all are saying i don't know what i'm doing. When you check your pushrod length the BEST way to do it is to check the rocker arm pattern across the valve tip. The narrower the pattern the better even if it's not as centered. I used a checking pushrod and set at no telling how many lengths and got the thinnest pattern using a 7.450 (it was a little off centered towards the exhaust side but that's to be expected because everything was moved UP because of the pushrod length and valve job being sunk some to get the correct free drop because of all the mill and bigger valves). Only way to get it back towards the center and thin would be to move the whole rocker arm setup back towards the intake side like the Jesel setups do when you have a longer valve and everything on the ****ty 23* chevy stuff.
Also the cam was not degree'd in, you gave me about a $20 timing set that wasn't adjustable at all. It was installed dot to dot and if i remember correctly it was about 3 degree's advanced or so.
And the springs were not installed incorrectly, they were all installed at or around 1.800 give or take .010 which is good enough for anything. They wern't installed all over the place or any bull**** like that. You sent me probably 20 emails and that one email saying they needing to be installed at 1.750 was about a 3 months or some **** before the damn heads were put together. Nobody is gonna remember back that far, i installed the springs where i thought they should have been given the lift on the cam and the manufacturer recommendation and given the fact that i'd rather be a little low on spring pressure than have them coil bind and really be ****ed. Only thing i picked out in this whole damn build was the pushrods and the head gasket thickness, all that other **** you all gave me and told me to put it together.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:37 PM
Post #33
Also that being said jack did seem to think that given that cam is so small in duration and on like a 108 that if it's advanced even 4* which usually makes more power unless the cam is not right for the application(to small or something) that it could make it fall of that early. I still think you need the patriot golds which i recommended from the very beginning and i'd put a larger cam in that thing as well.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 10:42 PM
Post #34
Eric we just want the car to run it's best and have no idea what is going on, valve springs you said were the problem so we reshimmed and set them up correctly, now the push rods are way long and the cam is advanced? Two problems and both could kill the power
Doug take the fnnnnnn car apart tomm nite and Jack Fast and I will fix the pushrods and degree the fnn cam Im betting degreee the cam and she will spin like a *****
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:46 PM
Post #35
The push rods arn't to long. Have you all even bothered to check the sweep? You have to consider nothing about that is close to stock so it makes sense a stock length pushrod wouldn't work. The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket, valves are .050 longer, valve job sunk so that moves everything up even more, so a longer pushrod makes sense.
And 3* isn't advanced to far, most stuff runs better advanced 2 to 4 degree's unless the cam is wrong for the application.
--------------------
Eric Carey
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:48 PM
Post #36
as matter of fact Eric I order the clyoes timming set, which was the timming set that you said to order, but I wanted to get the heavy duty LT4 timing set, but you said to get the clyoes, which I did now your saying that its my fault, well its funny to me that when most of the time people buy parts and take them to someone they can put it together, with out any problems........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 10:50 PM
Post #37
OK what does it take to get this car running???
We shimmed springs up
Bret has offered to take cam back
WE WANT TO RACE AND MAKE EVERY OUNCE OF POWER THIS LT1 CAN
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:53 PM
Post #38
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 12:48 AM) *
as matter of fact Eric I order the clyoes timming set, which was the timming set that you said to order, but I wanted to get the heavy duty LT4 timing set, but you said to get the clyoes, which I did now your saying that its my fault, well its funny to me that when most of the time people buy parts and take them to someone they can put it together, with out any problems........
Doug you told me you bought the timing chain set that everybody recommended on camaroz28. I recommended a summit cloyes set that was a true solid roller that was fully adjustable from 8* advanced to 8 retarded. The one you gave me was about a $20 chain, had a solid sprocket, no adjustability at all, and wasn't a roller chain at all. It was the regular link chain.
And you know what i've yet to have any kind of problem at all when i picked the parts that ordered and knew what was going together.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:55 PM
Post #39
Thats the one I orderd from Summit, and brought to you............
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
+Quote Post
V Full Edit
V Quick Edit
git_sum
post Yesterday, 10:56 PM
Post #40
QUOTE(Steve Buckley @ Mar 24 2008, 12:50 AM) *
OK what does it take to get this car running???
We shimmed springs up
Bret has offered to take cam back
WE WANT TO RACE AND MAKE EVERY OUNCE OF POWER THIS LT1 CAN
put something with about 230 or so on the intake side, about a 238 on the exhaust, keep about the same lift you had and go with something on a 110lsa with the patriot spring kit. But then after you do that you'll have to recheck the pushrod length and might have to reorder pushrods. And actually break down and buy a nice timing chian, not some kinda cheap *** $20 link bar non adjustable timing chain so you can actually put the cam in where you want it without having to drill the sprocket and **** with those damned offset dowels.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Yesterday, 10:59 PM
Post #41
Eric, thats ok, thanks for all your help, I will take it to someone else thats knows how to work on these cars........you may be able to port heads alittle but you sure don't know much about valve train geometry.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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V Full Edit
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 11:03 PM
Post #42
DOUG A CREDIT CARD and a reputable feller that will help you get this junk *** chevy fixed
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Steve Buckley
post Yesterday, 11:05 PM
Post #43
I bet Brett will send us a larger cam and he has offered to take back all his ****.
Lets get her fixed so I can wipe my fords nose up that chevys ***
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black96z28
post Yesterday, 11:08 PM
Post #44
the part number for the timimg chain is clo-c-3039 from summit that was $87.39 is what I ordered and I believe I have it in a e-mail that you sent me too........
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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V Full Edit
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git_sum
post Yesterday, 11:19 PM
Post #45
Yea that part number sounds right but that's not what you gave me and that's not what went in your car. If you dont believe me pull that timing cover off and take a look at that bad boy, nothing double roller or adjustable about it at all. It was about a $20 setup.
And has anyone even thought about checking the sweep on that thing? It was checked with a solid lifter, and a checking pushrod and to get the narrowest possible sweep that's what it took. It's not magic, the narrower the better. Some people would rather have it more centered even if it's wider but those people are dumbasses. If you think about it the narrower the pattern the more the rocker arm is pushing directly down on the valve which translate into the most possible lift at the valve which makes for the most power. That's what you got, and no matter what your still working with a 23* chevy so your valvetrain is ****ed from the get go. Nothing i did was wrong, i checked and double checked everything so i know what in the hell is going on.
--------------------
Eric Carey
03-24-2008, 11:04 AM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
page 4 from kyhorsepower
Page 4
1SICKTA
post Today, 12:00 AM
Post #46
I am with Gitsum on this, you guys get on here and bash him and his work now. When it all started you guys were all about him now it just passing the blame from one guy to the next. It's and LT1 there could be more than just vavle train problems with the car. Heck it just might be the way the car will always be who knows. Have you guys even had it to the track yet? How does it run? Dyno #'s don't mean jack. Take the car apart yourself check what needs check and if there's a problem fix it if not live with it.
--------------------
Sean
88 Civic LX new daily driver
Sponsored by Scream and fly
95' TA 11.11 1/4 483rwhp 453rwtq(old setup) TUNED BY BLUECAT!
91' RS 7.88 8th 320rwhp 442rwtq
"Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even though no one else does it."
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black96z28
post Today, 07:19 AM
Post #47
I am not bashing anyone, I am just going by what I am told, there is members on that think the pushrods are to long, and I am just asking questions, thats all, if it was your car wouldn't you want it to run to its full potential, thats all I am asking, when went with Bret bauer, because alot of people talked good about his stuff, so thats what we did, also we wanted the car to pull hard all the way through the RPM range, and Bret said that with this cam it would pull hard all the way through to 6300 rpm, well the car pulls hard all the way through to it hits 5800 to 5900 and drops off like it fell off a cliff, and floats the valves, I am just trying to figure out wht, thats what this board is for, hell I don't know **** about engines and I don't car to admit it, but thats why I rely on people on this board and camaroz28.com, because you guys have been there and done that, whats wrong with wanting the best for the money that you spend......come on I have spent $7000 grand on this thing in the past year in a half, I just want it to run, thats all......hell the car sounds bad as hell, but it shouldn't fall off like that and float the valves so yet the dyno numbers do mean something, if it wasn't falling off like that, then there wouldn't be a problem........the dyno numbers would be what they would be, but like I said it falls off at 5900, so there is a problem somewhere and I want to know why thats all.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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badpumpkin
post Today, 07:44 AM
Post #48
hope you guys getter lined out for the shootout id like to put some stripes on that thing...lol
--------------------
2002 Chevy Camaro Z-28, NBM, M6, T-Tops
G5X2, Lid, SLP U/P, Headers, Magnaflow Catback, LS7 Clutch, Pro 5.0, 10 Bolt 3.42, Z06 Wheels
N/A 11.49 @ 118 best mph 119
Nitrous 10.89 @ 121 quit @ 1/8th
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KY95Z28
post Today, 07:58 AM
Post #49
QUOTE(git_sum @ Mar 23 2008, 10:46 PM) *
The push rods arn't to long. Have you all even bothered to check the sweep? You have to consider nothing about that is close to stock so it makes sense a stock length pushrod wouldn't work. The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket, valves are .050 longer, valve job sunk so that moves everything up even more, so a longer pushrod makes sense.
And 3* isn't advanced to far, most stuff runs better advanced 2 to 4 degree's unless the cam is wrong for the application.
Last time I checked, milling and thinner head gaskets add up to a shorter pushrod? The only length added in the valvetrain was the longer valve. I'm no expert but I know how to check for a pushrod length and the pattern......something which I suggested to the op a couple times now. I agree he needs to check it himself or have someone who know how check it and see. Most likely it isn't the cause of all his problems, but a good place to start. FWIW on my AI heads(+.100 valves), decked block, impala .026 gasket, I needed a 7.100 length pushrod. I realize that every engine is a little different and each setup will vary, but I see no way that you needed a pushrod that is .250 longer than stock.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Today, 08:14 AM
Post #50
Nick thanks, thats all I am saying I agree, it may not be all the problems, but something is making it fall off at 5900, I just don't know what, and your not the only one saying that the pushrods are too long, Bret, flippy and a couple of others, I agree I have no ideal how to check it, so thats why I am relying on this board, i just want it to run good thats all, I could care less who outruns me or who I out run, if you take a knife to a gun fight your going to lose, and a LT1 against a LS1, more than likely the Lt1 is gonna lose, but who cares, I just want it to pull all the way through..........Nick, you have a Lt1 and I trust what you are saying......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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flippy1974
post Today, 08:18 AM
Post #51
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 08:14 AM) *
Nick thanks, thats all I am saying I agree, it may not be all the problems, but something is making it fall off at 5900, I just don't know what, and your not the only one saying that the pushrods are too long, Bret, flippy and a couple of others, I agree I have no ideal how to check it, so thats why I am relying on this board, i just want it to run good thats all, I could care less who outruns me or who I out run, if you take a knife to a gun fight your going to lose, and a LT1 against a LS1, more than likely the Lt1 is gonna lose, but who cares, I just want it to pull all the way through..........Nick, you have a Lt1 and I trust what you are saying......
im hoping my little lt1 will hold its own with the most ls1 tongue.gif .
i think git sum knows what he ius doing and sounds like he checked the pushrods right without it being in front of us its hard to find out were just guessing.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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1SICKTA
post Today, 12:00 AM
Post #46
I am with Gitsum on this, you guys get on here and bash him and his work now. When it all started you guys were all about him now it just passing the blame from one guy to the next. It's and LT1 there could be more than just vavle train problems with the car. Heck it just might be the way the car will always be who knows. Have you guys even had it to the track yet? How does it run? Dyno #'s don't mean jack. Take the car apart yourself check what needs check and if there's a problem fix it if not live with it.
--------------------
Sean
88 Civic LX new daily driver
Sponsored by Scream and fly
95' TA 11.11 1/4 483rwhp 453rwtq(old setup) TUNED BY BLUECAT!
91' RS 7.88 8th 320rwhp 442rwtq
"Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even though no one else does it."
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black96z28
post Today, 07:19 AM
Post #47
I am not bashing anyone, I am just going by what I am told, there is members on that think the pushrods are to long, and I am just asking questions, thats all, if it was your car wouldn't you want it to run to its full potential, thats all I am asking, when went with Bret bauer, because alot of people talked good about his stuff, so thats what we did, also we wanted the car to pull hard all the way through the RPM range, and Bret said that with this cam it would pull hard all the way through to 6300 rpm, well the car pulls hard all the way through to it hits 5800 to 5900 and drops off like it fell off a cliff, and floats the valves, I am just trying to figure out wht, thats what this board is for, hell I don't know **** about engines and I don't car to admit it, but thats why I rely on people on this board and camaroz28.com, because you guys have been there and done that, whats wrong with wanting the best for the money that you spend......come on I have spent $7000 grand on this thing in the past year in a half, I just want it to run, thats all......hell the car sounds bad as hell, but it shouldn't fall off like that and float the valves so yet the dyno numbers do mean something, if it wasn't falling off like that, then there wouldn't be a problem........the dyno numbers would be what they would be, but like I said it falls off at 5900, so there is a problem somewhere and I want to know why thats all.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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badpumpkin
post Today, 07:44 AM
Post #48
hope you guys getter lined out for the shootout id like to put some stripes on that thing...lol
--------------------
2002 Chevy Camaro Z-28, NBM, M6, T-Tops
G5X2, Lid, SLP U/P, Headers, Magnaflow Catback, LS7 Clutch, Pro 5.0, 10 Bolt 3.42, Z06 Wheels
N/A 11.49 @ 118 best mph 119
Nitrous 10.89 @ 121 quit @ 1/8th
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KY95Z28
post Today, 07:58 AM
Post #49
QUOTE(git_sum @ Mar 23 2008, 10:46 PM) *
The push rods arn't to long. Have you all even bothered to check the sweep? You have to consider nothing about that is close to stock so it makes sense a stock length pushrod wouldn't work. The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket, valves are .050 longer, valve job sunk so that moves everything up even more, so a longer pushrod makes sense.
And 3* isn't advanced to far, most stuff runs better advanced 2 to 4 degree's unless the cam is wrong for the application.
Last time I checked, milling and thinner head gaskets add up to a shorter pushrod? The only length added in the valvetrain was the longer valve. I'm no expert but I know how to check for a pushrod length and the pattern......something which I suggested to the op a couple times now. I agree he needs to check it himself or have someone who know how check it and see. Most likely it isn't the cause of all his problems, but a good place to start. FWIW on my AI heads(+.100 valves), decked block, impala .026 gasket, I needed a 7.100 length pushrod. I realize that every engine is a little different and each setup will vary, but I see no way that you needed a pushrod that is .250 longer than stock.
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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black96z28
post Today, 08:14 AM
Post #50
Nick thanks, thats all I am saying I agree, it may not be all the problems, but something is making it fall off at 5900, I just don't know what, and your not the only one saying that the pushrods are too long, Bret, flippy and a couple of others, I agree I have no ideal how to check it, so thats why I am relying on this board, i just want it to run good thats all, I could care less who outruns me or who I out run, if you take a knife to a gun fight your going to lose, and a LT1 against a LS1, more than likely the Lt1 is gonna lose, but who cares, I just want it to pull all the way through..........Nick, you have a Lt1 and I trust what you are saying......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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flippy1974
post Today, 08:18 AM
Post #51
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 08:14 AM) *
Nick thanks, thats all I am saying I agree, it may not be all the problems, but something is making it fall off at 5900, I just don't know what, and your not the only one saying that the pushrods are too long, Bret, flippy and a couple of others, I agree I have no ideal how to check it, so thats why I am relying on this board, i just want it to run good thats all, I could care less who outruns me or who I out run, if you take a knife to a gun fight your going to lose, and a LT1 against a LS1, more than likely the Lt1 is gonna lose, but who cares, I just want it to pull all the way through..........Nick, you have a Lt1 and I trust what you are saying......
im hoping my little lt1 will hold its own with the most ls1 tongue.gif .
i think git sum knows what he ius doing and sounds like he checked the pushrods right without it being in front of us its hard to find out were just guessing.
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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03-24-2008, 11:05 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
page 4 continued
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Bluecat
post Today, 08:40 AM
Post #52
QUOTE(git_sum @ Mar 23 2008, 09:46 PM) *
The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket
Damn, thats a lot. Do you remeber what his piston to valve clearance was? I've had LT1's that didn't have the heads milled or thinner gaskets have clearance issues before. Granted much larger duration cams, but smaller lift also.
I've seen pvc cause a 5800 rpm revlimiter before, you know who you are..... rolleyes.gif tongue.gif
And, like I mentioned to Doug in email, this could be an ignition problem as well. I've got several 7000rpm lt1s with stock coils and no ignition box, but not every car is the same. I'd try a cd box and a new coil before I tore into the engine again. LT1's can be picky about that stuff, I've seen them break up on the big end from to little timing, presumibly from not enough spark to combat the cylinder pressure when you wait until the piston is closer to TDC. Primetimes car is like that. Anything below 30deg and it won't pull to 6000 without breaking up and missing.
I'm pretty sure Doug's car was a typical LT, wanting 34-35 degrees at peak torque, gradually increasing as the revs climb. But opti's can be all over the place, we might be getting 10 degress less than we are commanding. Without a marked balancer there is no way to check. Basically there could be a million other things causing this, it is a Lt1 you know. rolleyes.gif It could always be the opti.
Just throwing other stuff out there. If it was ignition weakness it probally would have yeilded a bad tach signal on the dyno (inductive pickup on the plug wire) when it stared breaking up, which it didn't. A bad opti hitting every lick, but with randomly incorrect timing would keep a good tach singal to the dyno but could cause this. Reguarless, it sounded and acted like a mechanical valvetrain issue when I seen it. But I'd still keep my mind open.
--------------------
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black96z28
post Today, 08:42 AM
Post #53
I know flippy, its hard to know if its not in front of you, myself I have no clue, so its really hard for me, I can only think its 1 of 4 issues, one pushrods are too long, 2) Springs are not strong enough, 3) it needs a MSD 6al, or 4) a combination of all three.....there should be no reason the car falls off at 5900 and floats the valves.....and you can ask Bobby he dyno it the last time and as soon as it floated the valves it let off of it, and the dyno sheet from him and phil shows the same thing, before with the 1st set of springs installed at 1.80, and bobby's dyno with the a new set of springs installed at 1.75 like Bret wanted. therefore I can't see it being the springs........or maybe I am wrong and it is the springs, but Bret swears its not the springs, so I just wanted to know what it is so I can get it fixed and go racing and it pulled to 6300 like Bret said the package would.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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black96z28
post Today, 08:49 AM
Post #54
Phil, I agree, it did sound mechanical, but I am willing to buy a MSD 6al, also, which in fact I may end up buying one this week, but I would like to know, what everyone else thinks too, Phil I trust your judgement a whole lot, you know these LT1s well and I know its got to be a simple issue, but damn it keeps adding up to big dollars, LOL.....oh well, I guess thats the way it goes........I just wish we had people closer than knows these cars like you do, because I know your covered up........Danville is a long pull, and gas prices don't make it any easier.......hell thats a $120 buck just to pull the car there, and the valves covers haven't even been off yet, lol.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Bluecat
post Today, 08:51 AM
Post #55
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 07:42 AM) *
can only think its 1 of 4 issues
5. springs are to strong and bleeding down the lifters. biggrin.gif Hey, it can happen. Just though I'd muddy the water more for you.
--------------------
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Today, 08:58 AM
Post #56
LOL, damn Phil........maybe I should have brought a LS1, lol.......nah, I like my little LT1 is a sweet looking car, just have to get it lined out.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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flippy1974
post Today, 09:05 AM
Post #57
a 6al with blaster coil and 35 deg gap on plug is a must with that compression .
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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KY95Z28
post Today, 10:05 AM
Post #58
I wouldn't spend money I didn't need to spend. IMO throwing an $200 ignition box at it probably isn't going to be the answer. I would check, recheck, and check again everything I physically could on the car(starting with the valvetrain) and then worry about throwing more money at it
What shortblock work was done, whats the compression?
I know every car is different but there are many high hp, high rpm, high compression setups that don't use an ignition box.
I dont use one at around 11.8:1
Phil, you probably know as much or more about these issues as anyone.......what could/would be the result be "IF" the pushrod is indeed too long?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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git_sum
Rating: 0
post Today, 10:21 AM
Post #59
There was no shortblock work done. We even reused the stock lifters. And yes i know .042 is a lot of milling but lt1 chambers suck *** so i had to redo them. I milled the first part of that wierd quench pad all the way out, if you look on lingefelters page they dont have one at all so i'm assuming they do even more milling. It's not an uncommon practice at all.
The chambers are about 54cc's, and it has a .027 gasket. If i can remember correctly it's got around 11.3:1 or so but i can't remember for sure unless i calculate it up again.
I understand you think the pushrods are to long, i even checked the sweep with the stock pushrods and it wasn't right. I kept moving the checking pushrod out and the sweep kept getting better. I checked it i several different lenghts and that's what it wanted. I even checked it again after i got the pushrods in and the sweep was still very narrow so nothing was wrong.
Also the pushrods were oil restricting which should keep the lifters pumped up better which might cause you to need a little more spring pressure. Also i'm not even sure if whoever set them up this time set them up right. Most spring beehive spring retainers fall into the spring height checker and gives you a false reading so you have to have something to fill the void so it reads off the top. For all i know whoever reinstalled them didn't even do it right.
Also being that the cam is small on a 108 it's not going ot want to pull that high, that's a lower rpms lsa and not a lot of duration. It's not goign to want to scream until 8000rpms or something. I still think you should go with the patriot spring kit(if the valves are still floating it's just a lack of spring pressure so add more). Also like i said i'd go with a larger cam on like a 110 since it'll be more suited for going past 6000k. And like bluecat said it could be those lifters as well...
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Today, 10:22 AM
Post #60
Also what were the dyno numbers on the other dyno? Did it make more... less... or what?
Also phil the freedrop was near stock(which means the valvejob was sunk so the valves were up higher) which means longer pushrods.
Also not to bash anyone on here but Doug just because Nick has owns an lt1 doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Truth is most people that get online are just keyboard warriors with little to NO real world experience. Just because someone owns a car and gets online doesn't make them an expert. It's easy for a lot of you to point fingers when you wern't there putting it together. But it's easy for Doug to get on here and point fingers at me just because i'm 21 and at first glance someone would assume that i dont know a engine from a *******. If i were 20 years older with a 1 foot beard a mustache living in a trailor park with grease all over my clothes i probably wouldn't be doubted at all.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
Bluecat
post Today, 08:40 AM
Post #52
QUOTE(git_sum @ Mar 23 2008, 09:46 PM) *
The heads were milled .042, they have almost a .020 thinner than stock head gasket
Damn, thats a lot. Do you remeber what his piston to valve clearance was? I've had LT1's that didn't have the heads milled or thinner gaskets have clearance issues before. Granted much larger duration cams, but smaller lift also.
I've seen pvc cause a 5800 rpm revlimiter before, you know who you are..... rolleyes.gif tongue.gif
And, like I mentioned to Doug in email, this could be an ignition problem as well. I've got several 7000rpm lt1s with stock coils and no ignition box, but not every car is the same. I'd try a cd box and a new coil before I tore into the engine again. LT1's can be picky about that stuff, I've seen them break up on the big end from to little timing, presumibly from not enough spark to combat the cylinder pressure when you wait until the piston is closer to TDC. Primetimes car is like that. Anything below 30deg and it won't pull to 6000 without breaking up and missing.
I'm pretty sure Doug's car was a typical LT, wanting 34-35 degrees at peak torque, gradually increasing as the revs climb. But opti's can be all over the place, we might be getting 10 degress less than we are commanding. Without a marked balancer there is no way to check. Basically there could be a million other things causing this, it is a Lt1 you know. rolleyes.gif It could always be the opti.
Just throwing other stuff out there. If it was ignition weakness it probally would have yeilded a bad tach signal on the dyno (inductive pickup on the plug wire) when it stared breaking up, which it didn't. A bad opti hitting every lick, but with randomly incorrect timing would keep a good tach singal to the dyno but could cause this. Reguarless, it sounded and acted like a mechanical valvetrain issue when I seen it. But I'd still keep my mind open.
--------------------
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black96z28
post Today, 08:42 AM
Post #53
I know flippy, its hard to know if its not in front of you, myself I have no clue, so its really hard for me, I can only think its 1 of 4 issues, one pushrods are too long, 2) Springs are not strong enough, 3) it needs a MSD 6al, or 4) a combination of all three.....there should be no reason the car falls off at 5900 and floats the valves.....and you can ask Bobby he dyno it the last time and as soon as it floated the valves it let off of it, and the dyno sheet from him and phil shows the same thing, before with the 1st set of springs installed at 1.80, and bobby's dyno with the a new set of springs installed at 1.75 like Bret wanted. therefore I can't see it being the springs........or maybe I am wrong and it is the springs, but Bret swears its not the springs, so I just wanted to know what it is so I can get it fixed and go racing and it pulled to 6300 like Bret said the package would.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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black96z28
post Today, 08:49 AM
Post #54
Phil, I agree, it did sound mechanical, but I am willing to buy a MSD 6al, also, which in fact I may end up buying one this week, but I would like to know, what everyone else thinks too, Phil I trust your judgement a whole lot, you know these LT1s well and I know its got to be a simple issue, but damn it keeps adding up to big dollars, LOL.....oh well, I guess thats the way it goes........I just wish we had people closer than knows these cars like you do, because I know your covered up........Danville is a long pull, and gas prices don't make it any easier.......hell thats a $120 buck just to pull the car there, and the valves covers haven't even been off yet, lol.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
http://www.myspace.com/realtreeman
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Bluecat
post Today, 08:51 AM
Post #55
QUOTE(black96z28 @ Mar 24 2008, 07:42 AM) *
can only think its 1 of 4 issues
5. springs are to strong and bleeding down the lifters. biggrin.gif Hey, it can happen. Just though I'd muddy the water more for you.
--------------------
+Quote Post
black96z28
post Today, 08:58 AM
Post #56
LOL, damn Phil........maybe I should have brought a LS1, lol.......nah, I like my little LT1 is a sweet looking car, just have to get it lined out.......
--------------------
GM MUSCLE
96 Black Z28
LT1/6-Speed
Packing a few goodies
tuned by Bluecat
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flippy1974
post Today, 09:05 AM
Post #57
a 6al with blaster coil and 35 deg gap on plug is a must with that compression .
--------------------
98% of FORDS are still on the road......the other 2% made it home.
QUOTE(MustangMike @ Feb 6 2008, 11:44 PM) *
u don't want any of that "slowmaro"
tuned by bluecat
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KY95Z28
post Today, 10:05 AM
Post #58
I wouldn't spend money I didn't need to spend. IMO throwing an $200 ignition box at it probably isn't going to be the answer. I would check, recheck, and check again everything I physically could on the car(starting with the valvetrain) and then worry about throwing more money at it
What shortblock work was done, whats the compression?
I know every car is different but there are many high hp, high rpm, high compression setups that don't use an ignition box.
I dont use one at around 11.8:1
Phil, you probably know as much or more about these issues as anyone.......what could/would be the result be "IF" the pushrod is indeed too long?
--------------------
Nick Auxier
1995 Z28 M6
AI powered 355--Bluecat Tuned--429hp/377tq
1999 F250 7.3l Dieselhttp://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/ultraz28ky
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git_sum
Rating: 0
post Today, 10:21 AM
Post #59
There was no shortblock work done. We even reused the stock lifters. And yes i know .042 is a lot of milling but lt1 chambers suck *** so i had to redo them. I milled the first part of that wierd quench pad all the way out, if you look on lingefelters page they dont have one at all so i'm assuming they do even more milling. It's not an uncommon practice at all.
The chambers are about 54cc's, and it has a .027 gasket. If i can remember correctly it's got around 11.3:1 or so but i can't remember for sure unless i calculate it up again.
I understand you think the pushrods are to long, i even checked the sweep with the stock pushrods and it wasn't right. I kept moving the checking pushrod out and the sweep kept getting better. I checked it i several different lenghts and that's what it wanted. I even checked it again after i got the pushrods in and the sweep was still very narrow so nothing was wrong.
Also the pushrods were oil restricting which should keep the lifters pumped up better which might cause you to need a little more spring pressure. Also i'm not even sure if whoever set them up this time set them up right. Most spring beehive spring retainers fall into the spring height checker and gives you a false reading so you have to have something to fill the void so it reads off the top. For all i know whoever reinstalled them didn't even do it right.
Also being that the cam is small on a 108 it's not going ot want to pull that high, that's a lower rpms lsa and not a lot of duration. It's not goign to want to scream until 8000rpms or something. I still think you should go with the patriot spring kit(if the valves are still floating it's just a lack of spring pressure so add more). Also like i said i'd go with a larger cam on like a 110 since it'll be more suited for going past 6000k. And like bluecat said it could be those lifters as well...
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
+Quote Post
git_sum
post Today, 10:22 AM
Post #60
Also what were the dyno numbers on the other dyno? Did it make more... less... or what?
Also phil the freedrop was near stock(which means the valvejob was sunk so the valves were up higher) which means longer pushrods.
Also not to bash anyone on here but Doug just because Nick has owns an lt1 doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Truth is most people that get online are just keyboard warriors with little to NO real world experience. Just because someone owns a car and gets online doesn't make them an expert. It's easy for a lot of you to point fingers when you wern't there putting it together. But it's easy for Doug to get on here and point fingers at me just because i'm 21 and at first glance someone would assume that i dont know a engine from a *******. If i were 20 years older with a 1 foot beard a mustache living in a trailor park with grease all over my clothes i probably wouldn't be doubted at all.
--------------------
Eric Carey
02 Black/mod red Z06-SOLD
03-24-2008, 11:08 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
Ok guys thats the thread where it stands right now, I am so sorry for putting this on here like this, but I thought you guys would have some ideals too about the problem, again I am sorry for it being a pain in the *** to read this thread.......
03-24-2008, 12:02 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Apopka FL
Posts: 852
good God that's a lot of crap to read, I didn't read it all, I stopped after about 3/4's down - did you ever check the push rod length? have you tried any different springs? in my opinion I would think the springs are wrong - that's usually why you get valve float
03-24-2008, 12:06 PM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Prestonsburg, Ky
Posts: 193
we changed the Springs from a 1.80 install height and put brand new Pac springs on at the 1.75 suggested install height by Bret Bauer......and it didn't help it at all and the cut still dropped off at 5900 rpms, so thats why I am here asking the same question.......
03-24-2008, 12:20 PM
#15
man i tried to read that i just cant do it. start a new thread and include all your info, everything done to the car, what exactly your problem is and what you have done so far to fix it
but from skimming through i think the first thing you need to do is have someone else check pushrod lenght
who did your heads
but from skimming through i think the first thing you need to do is have someone else check pushrod lenght
who did your heads