djk19

but it also works against your engine... it is just a known fact that you gain horsepower and valve timing improvements from removing the cam driven gear and setup, plugging it up and installing an electric motor that is easily accessable and runs from the battery with a simple relay in between. This guy made a picture walkthrough.. I bought my pump already, waiting to get advice on the best heavy duty timing set to get so I can do that while I am removing the gear for the dang waterpump that suuuux. it also goes from high horsepower engines that are stressing the belt system. Preloads the bearing down and you get the leak... onto the opti.... I can think of more reasons to replace it with an electric.... Why dont we have manual engine fans any more?? Because electric ones are MUCH better!

http://ken.lowrance.com/projects/CSI...mp/Default.htm

this guy is awesome.. Even gives you the part numbers... how easy can it be?!

2QUIK6

All of this is true about an EWP, except for the valve timing improvement part, I don't buy that..
But the number one reason for not going EWP for me is the fact that when it goes you are left stranded...and it will quit working one day. For a daily driver that is something I don't want to risk, and the fact my wife drives it and either she would be left on the side of the road scared out of her mind that some lunatic is going to stop, or she would never notice the temp gauge and keep drving till the motor seized.

If the timing set is installed correctly, and the wp bearing are not super tight, and your oil galley holes are not plugged, you should get 75k+ miles out of your gear drive pump...and when it goes, it still at least pumps water but has a little leak. If you look at the opti, its sealed up pretty well, it will take a gushing of water to ruin it, especially a vented opti...a little drip from the pump isn't going to kill it everytime...and replacing an opti is much easier to deal with than the 2 scenarios mentioned above when the EWP bites the dust.

Injuneer

The fact that the waer pump is electric powered does not magically eliminate the load on the engine. It draws the power to drive the pump from the alternator, and the alternator has to consume more power to make more power. And of course the alternator is not 100% efficient in creating electric power from mechanical power. To attribute all this to some sort of magic improvement in electric motor efficiency is naive, at best.

Electric water pumps show a saving in HP at high engine RPM because they are pumping less water. Whether your engine needs the extra flow produced by the mechanical pump is what should determine whether you want the limitation in max flow imposed by the electric pump. The shop that built my engine wouldn't even consider putting an electric pump on an engine with a 300-shot of nitrous, and the potential for damage without adequate head cooling at 7,000 RPM. My ED LT4 set has been hapilly driving the water pump for 7 years now, and its also driving a solid roller cam with some hefty spring pressures. No water leaks, no "bearing preload" problems.........

Electric fans are used because they can be turned on and off. Why consume power when the fan isn't needed. Yes, an electric fan is "better" for that application, but only because of the "on/off" feature. The electric water pump does not offer the same advantage, since its not really an "on/off" application.

djk19

Your alternator will work harder internally to put out the same voltage when a load is placed on it. It doesn't make your engine work harder. It supplies as much voltage as it can and there is a point when it can't charge any more which I don't think anyone with a 5 amp electric motor for a water pump has to worry about.

LiENUS

Where do you think the alternator gets the extra power from to work harder? It gets it from the engine, It doesn't magically increase its output without using any extra energy from the engine. When there is more load the alternator turns more of the energy the engine is outputting into electrical energy and electric motors are less efficient than direct drive motors because the energy has to go from mechanical to electrical back to mechanical rather than directly from mechanical to mechanical (second law of thermodynamics anyone?). Theres another advantage electrical fans have that an electric water pump doesn't have (though it would be possible to work around this limitation and give the ewp the same advantage). With our electrical fans we have two fans, a high speed and a low speed, If the temperature keeps going up after the low speed fan is on the engine can kick on the second one to increase the airflow over the radiator in a higher load situation, currently afaik there is no electric water pump with a high speed and a low speed configuration.

djk19

that is all very good information. I actually didn't know that about the high/low fan but as far as the electric water pump... I like to use the KISS rule. keep things simple stupid. I am certified with electronics and using the electric waterpump even if a second battery is used with a load handling switch.. would seem like a better choice to me then somthing else mechanical that has nothing to do with my valvetrain interfering with it. I would rather work with an electrical issue then deal with a mechanical pump that is known to rob power. Mechanical robs power and electrical doesn't. If the electrical system needed so much juice and couldn't provide it... it would drop the voltage in the whole system. Like you said power can't be created from no where. the engine runs the alternator but it can only handle so much before the voltage just drops off when too much amperage is being pulled through... As long as it never got to that point... the electric motor would easily run off the power that is always available in our cars. it isn't enough to demand so much that it would hurt anything and if it did a lot... maybe the laternator would burn up..? not sure... but they do make those 140 amp alternators right!! I wish they weren't so pricey!

LiENUS

The alternator uses less mechanical energy and produces less electricity at lower loads, so the ewp isnt just using existing capacity that isnt used otherwise

djk19

it would be more simple even if there was some kind of mod to bolt on to have a dual impellar to save energy. the camshaft driven waterpump is just an lt1 thing. It isn't efficient by technological standards. You can keep it.

2QUIK6

Driven by the cam shaft or driven by the crank shaft and belt all comes out to the same hp loss...so its a SBC thing..nothing new what so ever.
I'll stick to my mechanical wp so me or my wife don't get stuck in the wrong part of town with a completely usless wp.

Injuneer

I find it hard to believe that someone who claims to have some sort of high tech electrical certification would even type that post. Power is the product of amps x volts. Increase the amps, and the alternator is making more power. Where do you think the energy to make that power comes from? Do you envision some sort of perpetual motion machine?

Using your theory, as long as a very large alternator was pumping out 12V, it could produce a huge number of amps, taking zero power off the engine. Do you seriously believe that?

What "technological standards" are you using to make that statement? A pump, like any other mechanical device, is not 100% efficient. It doesn't matter whether its driven by an electric motor or by a mechanical system like a belt or gear off the engine. The pump efficiency is going to be the same. Then you add an electric motor? There's a second device with less than 100% efficiency. Heat losses consume power, but provide nothing to drive the pump. Then you pull that electric power off an alternator that uses the same engine power, but adds yet another inefficient device to the chain. Energy is being lost in the alternator, in the electric motor and in the pump.

Normally at this point, I would say leave the mechanical issues alone, stick to the electrical ones.... but I don't think you should be arguing those either.

Bersaglieri

The E-WP makes more power to the wheels, is less hassle, one lasted twice as long as two GM mechanicals, and made my lower cost Cloyes Double roller install with ease. That's what matters to me.

-Dustin-

wrd1972

I ams sorry but I don't buy this. The altonator is alway outputting a given amount, the EWP is not going to work things much harder,

The EWP outlasting two GM pumps here would be the exception and not the rule IMHO. Less hassle, there are many things like wiring, failure circuit, fuses relays to deal with when using the EWP, the GM pump just bolt the damn thing on. Sorry but just cant agree hat the EWP is less hassle.

Bersaglieri

Perhaps the exception to the rule, but true for me none the less. Although not having the stock WP leaking coolant out of the weep hole and crucifying my opti is a nice trade off. Not to mention being able to swap the E-WP with much greater ease if the event ever needs to occur since the waterpump housing doesnt need to be removed from the block to do so. I dont know what all this wiring you are refering to. I have a wire for power and a switch for on/off. Its also easier when doing cam swaps, or putting in aftermarket timing sets. I'd rather have a $75 Cloyes double roller than a stock LT1 or LT4 HD or $3XX Comp Cam part. Right there its already saving you money. Its worth the 10rwhp/rwtq to me, and/or a tenth in the 1/4, maybe an extra 1mph, car length, however you want to measure it. Its also nice to be able to run the entire engine cooling system with just fliping a switch. The engine doesnt run as cool when you have to run the motor to run the coolant through the block. Works nice at the track in the staging lanes.

Everyone else can do what they want, but for me the $135 CSR E-WP was one of my best upgrades. Great return on my investment.

-Dustin-

tim95z28

As mentioned, the EWP will not flow enough under load for certain applications...From a previous post I have made

The alternator is converting mechanical energy to electrical energy. The alternator may have a max of 140 amps, but the amount of current actually produced depends on the load. The alternator actually just provides a voltage, and the current = the voltage/impedance. The more the load, the more the current. Power = voltage * current so 20 amps * 12 volts = 240 watts. 240 watts /746 = .3hp to turn the alternator (excluding losses.)

Now, an electric motor is supplied with a constant voltage. The motor will pull as much current as needed to keep turning at a constant speed. As the load increases, the current will increase until the max value (limited) if the current is not sufficient, the motor will slow down and pump less water.

Here is a graph of the volume of the stock pump. Do you think a small electrical motor can flow this much under load?

Bersaglieri

So whats your conclusion? The E-WP's dont flow enough?

-Dustin-