I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
08-02-2004, 10:28 PM
#31
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Without a doubt it could be the clutch switch... but if it was bypassed and still didn't work then it may not be it.
Crimping versus soldering on the ignition could be part of the concern. 5v signals need a good connection that resists oxidation. A good solder with heat shrink would be ideal. But... try this... since you did the crimp already, there is a liquid called "Stabilant 22". VW first started using it with their crappy wiring connectors. Now it is used across the auto industry. It is great for stereos, grounds (especially where there is raw/exposed metal), and even alarm systems. Any electrical connection is enhanced with it and every sound competitor worth anything uses it. If you don't want to solder, finish the job with "Stabilant 22". You may have a crimp that bit just the edge of the insulation.
Crimping versus soldering on the ignition could be part of the concern. 5v signals need a good connection that resists oxidation. A good solder with heat shrink would be ideal. But... try this... since you did the crimp already, there is a liquid called "Stabilant 22". VW first started using it with their crappy wiring connectors. Now it is used across the auto industry. It is great for stereos, grounds (especially where there is raw/exposed metal), and even alarm systems. Any electrical connection is enhanced with it and every sound competitor worth anything uses it. If you don't want to solder, finish the job with "Stabilant 22". You may have a crimp that bit just the edge of the insulation.
08-02-2004, 10:40 PM
#32
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
You say it started weak, Maybe you should try jump starting the car to eliminate the possibily of a bad internal battery problem, or just try another battery
OOps i didn't see this,below: battery does sound like it's good,But they can be tricky
I connected a Wire from the Purple wire to the Yellow on the relay... and Started my car that way. If fired up like she was brand new.
OOps i didn't see this,below: battery does sound like it's good,But they can be tricky
I connected a Wire from the Purple wire to the Yellow on the relay... and Started my car that way. If fired up like she was brand new.
Originally Posted by Heatmaker
Ok I've finished searching for the 3rd time...
This post best describes everything that I'm experiencing...
Seems pretty common too... but there is no solution on the thread...
Shoebox was very helpful... but there's no conclussion...???
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258354
THere's a Good connection on the battery...
Last time she ran was earlier... I stepped on the clutch and the car started weak(delay)...for a second then turned on... I turned the car off and waited a few to see if the old problem had returned... and sure enough it did...
I've also noticed that I do not hear my Starter engaging when I turn the Key... I can how ever hear the starter when I pull out the (PCM ignition) fuse and push it back in so it's alive... but not getting a connection when the clutch is engaged. I read the post hot linked above and pulled out my relay. There is corrosion on the Purple (Starter) Peg. I'm about to borrow a voltometer... to get to the bottom of this... I hope someone else in the same boat finds this post... so the Mysterious Non Cranking LT-1 problem can be solved once and for all.
Sorry my post was so angry... I was pissed because I missed my Job interview because of this crap.
This post best describes everything that I'm experiencing...
Seems pretty common too... but there is no solution on the thread...
Shoebox was very helpful... but there's no conclussion...???
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258354
THere's a Good connection on the battery...
Last time she ran was earlier... I stepped on the clutch and the car started weak(delay)...for a second then turned on... I turned the car off and waited a few to see if the old problem had returned... and sure enough it did...
I've also noticed that I do not hear my Starter engaging when I turn the Key... I can how ever hear the starter when I pull out the (PCM ignition) fuse and push it back in so it's alive... but not getting a connection when the clutch is engaged. I read the post hot linked above and pulled out my relay. There is corrosion on the Purple (Starter) Peg. I'm about to borrow a voltometer... to get to the bottom of this... I hope someone else in the same boat finds this post... so the Mysterious Non Cranking LT-1 problem can be solved once and for all.
Sorry my post was so angry... I was pissed because I missed my Job interview because of this crap.
Last edited by LT4orbust; 08-02-2004 at 10:57 PM.
08-03-2004, 12:50 AM
#33
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Okay... I've narrowed it down... I decided to reconduct my test using a simple LED light and this diagrahm courtesy of Mr.Shoebox.
I Counducted my test simply by plugging the Hot side of the light into the Clutch saftey switched Yellow wire and grounding the other on a bolt under the dash. When I turned the ignition key to "Start" the light came on... and it did so every time the key was in that position. So that concluded that the Yellow wire from the Ignition switch was indeed good. I next found myself at the "theft deterant relay" once more. I plugged the Red wire from the bulb into the Yellow wire input on the relay harness and the black wire from the bulb I grounded on a nearby bolt. I then turned the key into the start position with the Clutch pressed in this time... and once again the bulb lit itself. So indeed the YEllow wire was good at the relay also... So what about the Brown wire trailing from teh ignition switch? I did the same test to this wire as I did the yellow wire... and as I pushed hte clutch in and turned the key... they light was good. So the Ignition switch... and Clutch Start Switch are both doing thier jobs. So all that was left is the Purple Starter wire... I conducted the same test to this wire as well... but "no light" came on when I turned the key with the clutch pressed in. But as noted earlier in the post when a 12V source from the Yellow wire was hotlinked to the Purple wire the VEhicle was able to start... However I also conducted this Yellow wire to Purple wire test through the relay manually by pushing the relays connecting switch myself (after removing the relay cover). I was able to start my vehicle this way, but it did not stay running... even with the relay switch held in. As noted on the diaghram that switch connects the Yellow wire to the purple wire... or rather the ignition to the Starter solinoid. We can rule out the Clutch Start Switch in this sequence because in order to start the vehicle the Clutch Start switch must be engaged. So it would never cranked if the switch were faulty. So What would cause the vehicles relay not to resond to a turned key, and what would turn a perfectly running (well somewhat perfectly running) vehicle off after behing started? I'll tell you... the VATS system will... Yes... It was the vats system all along. I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on... And when the Theft system is bypassed the Vehicle starts... not to mention when the relay is installed and manually activated... the Vats system does not allow the vehicle to stay on.
So just what might we want to check now? This is an unusual problem...???
I Counducted my test simply by plugging the Hot side of the light into the Clutch saftey switched Yellow wire and grounding the other on a bolt under the dash. When I turned the ignition key to "Start" the light came on... and it did so every time the key was in that position. So that concluded that the Yellow wire from the Ignition switch was indeed good. I next found myself at the "theft deterant relay" once more. I plugged the Red wire from the bulb into the Yellow wire input on the relay harness and the black wire from the bulb I grounded on a nearby bolt. I then turned the key into the start position with the Clutch pressed in this time... and once again the bulb lit itself. So indeed the YEllow wire was good at the relay also... So what about the Brown wire trailing from teh ignition switch? I did the same test to this wire as I did the yellow wire... and as I pushed hte clutch in and turned the key... they light was good. So the Ignition switch... and Clutch Start Switch are both doing thier jobs. So all that was left is the Purple Starter wire... I conducted the same test to this wire as well... but "no light" came on when I turned the key with the clutch pressed in. But as noted earlier in the post when a 12V source from the Yellow wire was hotlinked to the Purple wire the VEhicle was able to start... However I also conducted this Yellow wire to Purple wire test through the relay manually by pushing the relays connecting switch myself (after removing the relay cover). I was able to start my vehicle this way, but it did not stay running... even with the relay switch held in. As noted on the diaghram that switch connects the Yellow wire to the purple wire... or rather the ignition to the Starter solinoid. We can rule out the Clutch Start Switch in this sequence because in order to start the vehicle the Clutch Start switch must be engaged. So it would never cranked if the switch were faulty. So What would cause the vehicles relay not to resond to a turned key, and what would turn a perfectly running (well somewhat perfectly running) vehicle off after behing started? I'll tell you... the VATS system will... Yes... It was the vats system all along. I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on... And when the Theft system is bypassed the Vehicle starts... not to mention when the relay is installed and manually activated... the Vats system does not allow the vehicle to stay on.
So just what might we want to check now? This is an unusual problem...???
08-03-2004, 08:23 AM
#35
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Originally Posted by CoUnTryMuZiCZ28
Ill just buy a new one.. Part number?? What exactly do I buy? Shoebox you rule! 
08-03-2004, 08:30 AM
#36
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Originally Posted by Heatmaker
Okay... I've narrowed it down... I decided to reconduct my test using a simple LED light and this diagrahm courtesy of Mr.Shoebox.
I Counducted my test simply by plugging the Hot side of the light into the Clutch saftey switched Yellow wire and grounding the other on a bolt under the dash. When I turned the ignition key to "Start" the light came on... and it did so every time the key was in that position. So that concluded that the Yellow wire from the Ignition switch was indeed good. I next found myself at the "theft deterant relay" once more. I plugged the Red wire from the bulb into the Yellow wire input on the relay harness and the black wire from the bulb I grounded on a nearby bolt. I then turned the key into the start position with the Clutch pressed in this time... and once again the bulb lit itself. So indeed the YEllow wire was good at the relay also... So what about the Brown wire trailing from teh ignition switch? I did the same test to this wire as I did the yellow wire... and as I pushed hte clutch in and turned the key... they light was good. So the Ignition switch... and Clutch Start Switch are both doing thier jobs. So all that was left is the Purple Starter wire... I conducted the same test to this wire as well... but "no light" came on when I turned the key with the clutch pressed in. But as noted earlier in the post when a 12V source from the Yellow wire was hotlinked to the Purple wire the VEhicle was able to start... However I also conducted this Yellow wire to Purple wire test through the relay manually by pushing the relays connecting switch myself (after removing the relay cover). I was able to start my vehicle this way, but it did not stay running... even with the relay switch held in. As noted on the diaghram that switch connects the Yellow wire to the purple wire... or rather the ignition to the Starter solinoid. We can rule out the Clutch Start Switch in this sequence because in order to start the vehicle the Clutch Start switch must be engaged. So it would never cranked if the switch were faulty. So What would cause the vehicles relay not to resond to a turned key, and what would turn a perfectly running (well somewhat perfectly running) vehicle off after behing started? I'll tell you... the VATS system will... Yes... It was the vats system all along. I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on... And when the Theft system is bypassed the Vehicle starts... not to mention when the relay is installed and manually activated... the Vats system does not allow the vehicle to stay on.
So just what might we want to check now? This is an unusual problem...???
I Counducted my test simply by plugging the Hot side of the light into the Clutch saftey switched Yellow wire and grounding the other on a bolt under the dash. When I turned the ignition key to "Start" the light came on... and it did so every time the key was in that position. So that concluded that the Yellow wire from the Ignition switch was indeed good. I next found myself at the "theft deterant relay" once more. I plugged the Red wire from the bulb into the Yellow wire input on the relay harness and the black wire from the bulb I grounded on a nearby bolt. I then turned the key into the start position with the Clutch pressed in this time... and once again the bulb lit itself. So indeed the YEllow wire was good at the relay also... So what about the Brown wire trailing from teh ignition switch? I did the same test to this wire as I did the yellow wire... and as I pushed hte clutch in and turned the key... they light was good. So the Ignition switch... and Clutch Start Switch are both doing thier jobs. So all that was left is the Purple Starter wire... I conducted the same test to this wire as well... but "no light" came on when I turned the key with the clutch pressed in. But as noted earlier in the post when a 12V source from the Yellow wire was hotlinked to the Purple wire the VEhicle was able to start... However I also conducted this Yellow wire to Purple wire test through the relay manually by pushing the relays connecting switch myself (after removing the relay cover). I was able to start my vehicle this way, but it did not stay running... even with the relay switch held in. As noted on the diaghram that switch connects the Yellow wire to the purple wire... or rather the ignition to the Starter solinoid. We can rule out the Clutch Start Switch in this sequence because in order to start the vehicle the Clutch Start switch must be engaged. So it would never cranked if the switch were faulty. So What would cause the vehicles relay not to resond to a turned key, and what would turn a perfectly running (well somewhat perfectly running) vehicle off after behing started? I'll tell you... the VATS system will... Yes... It was the vats system all along. I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on... And when the Theft system is bypassed the Vehicle starts... not to mention when the relay is installed and manually activated... the Vats system does not allow the vehicle to stay on.
So just what might we want to check now? This is an unusual problem...???
08-03-2004, 08:38 AM
#37
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 717
Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
As an observation: I did a search on similiar threads and came up with one that was almost identical. After lots of pictures / answers / suggestions it came down to the car owner had a aftermarket security system installed in the car and it jacked a couple things up. Lesson from that thread when posting include all related. Even if it is something as simple as my car will only start with the door open. Just my 2 pennies as i have been following this thread to try to learn something! Who says you can't teach a new dog old tricks! 
Last edited by 944v8inDFW; 08-03-2004 at 02:52 PM.
08-03-2004, 09:37 AM
#38
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Originally Posted by shoebox
You could have saved a whole lot of trouble, originally, by saying that your security lamp did not work. Probably as simple as it not reading the key pellet. There are about a bazillion posts on how to test and bypass that function.
I noted that in the other post "Getsome17's" ... but I would had never been able to determine the problem by the security light. My Security light has not come on in the past 2 years.
08-03-2004, 10:44 AM
#39
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Originally Posted by Heatmaker
I noted that in the other post "Getsome17's" ... but I would had never been able to determine the problem by the security light. My Security light has not come on in the past 2 years.
Sounds like you have a VATS problem to fix. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and explored the VATS, since you knew the light did not work.
08-03-2004, 01:38 PM
#40
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Aha!
But I didn't know the light was malfunctioning... Not till I saw your diagram and saw that it was connected to the vats thing and should have came on. I've never seen the light activate. In the 2 years I had the car. The light didn't come on because the fuse was removed. I took out my rear view mirror and pulled the fuse, but never replaced it. That was 2 years ago. So I forgot all about the theft light..didn't pay attention to it really... I didn't know the Courtesy light was wired into the Vat's system. SO when I pulled the fuse the "Theft" light never came on... even though everything else did. Which was hard tp pinipoint... since the guages have a Fuse of thier own... who'd figure the Theft light be wired to the Courtesy system. Trust me this problem cost me a Tow truck ride a new Starter, Clutch switch and other Misc crap. What a POS security system...and the other thead is Hotlinked in this post.
But I didn't know the light was malfunctioning... Not till I saw your diagram and saw that it was connected to the vats thing and should have came on. I've never seen the light activate. In the 2 years I had the car. The light didn't come on because the fuse was removed. I took out my rear view mirror and pulled the fuse, but never replaced it. That was 2 years ago. So I forgot all about the theft light..didn't pay attention to it really... I didn't know the Courtesy light was wired into the Vat's system. SO when I pulled the fuse the "Theft" light never came on... even though everything else did. Which was hard tp pinipoint... since the guages have a Fuse of thier own... who'd figure the Theft light be wired to the Courtesy system. Trust me this problem cost me a Tow truck ride a new Starter, Clutch switch and other Misc crap. What a POS security system...and the other thead is Hotlinked in this post.
Last edited by Heatmaker; 08-03-2004 at 01:53 PM.
08-03-2004, 02:10 PM
#41
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Interesting…. We start out with a post that rips GM a new butthole….
Then we find out the Haynes manual is no good:
Then we find out that:
Just curious…. are you still blaming GM and Haynes for all these problems? Or maybe you could blame Shoebox..... cuz he sounds a little pi$$ed off by this point.....
……I'M so sick of this crap I don't know what to do. This is ******* rediculious! How unreliable can a car be! My modded Civic may have been 99.9% slower but atleast she never let me down NEVER!!!! I'm so annoyed with this crap... every time I turn around it's something new that's broken... and it's all GM crap. Now what the heck is going on. When I push the clutch in and turn the Key the car wont start... just like before. What can it be now!!! If I didn't have to turn around and fix some junk GM crap everytiem I sat in the car... I'd have my 11sec all motor engine already! This is rediculous!
This haynes manual is crap (I can say crap?)
There is corrosion on the Purple (Starter) Peg………….
The ignition switch is brand new... and even though I didn't replace the pigtails... I pulled out each wire and crimped them to fit snugly on the Ign switch's connectors……..
I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on.………………..
My Security light has not come on in the past 2 years………….
The light didn't come on because the fuse was removed. I took out my rear view mirror and pulled the fuse, but never replaced it……………
The ignition switch is brand new... and even though I didn't replace the pigtails... I pulled out each wire and crimped them to fit snugly on the Ign switch's connectors……..
I was unable to detect the Vats system as Malfunctioning because the "theft" light does not come on.………………..
My Security light has not come on in the past 2 years………….
The light didn't come on because the fuse was removed. I took out my rear view mirror and pulled the fuse, but never replaced it……………
08-03-2004, 02:27 PM
#43
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Since my Vats system is still acting up I'm still blamming Gm. It's not like my car has 100K on it. It's fairly low miles... and too many issues and replacements. For cars I've had with nearly 200K and had nearly anything wrong with them.
And since I spent 12 hours yesterday toggling with this and I spent my money investing in the issue... the only person I see having a right to be pissed is myself so I don't see how anyone would really be bothered by the situation. I'm very thankful for to everyone for takign the time out to help me. No reason to be rude about it "Injuneer." The problem still exist and the car is not fixed... It's just "could be this could be that. But now it's pinpointed to the Vats module. When I got the car I wasn't familiar with the security system and never remembered seeing any Theft light. Really... just not one of those things you pay attention to unless it malfunctions like in this post. Had I know that pulling the courtesy fuse 2 years ago would had intterupted the "theft" light I would had put it back in. But it's kind of silly to blame a light. The light isn't the problem if it came on or not. I put the fuse back in... and the car works normal now. IT works normal with the fuse out also. I have 2 keys and also tried starting the car with either or... and that didn't do the trick. Stil lcna't detirmine for sure but the car starts when it wants to... and Since this all happend after I took my car for an alignment I believe they probably snagged one of the Vats wires with thier steering wheel tool. So I'll look over that again. If anything this post can Help out some others in the same situation. And yes I will continue to rip GM a new one. As long as I'm replacing things I shouldn't have too. Window Motors, Window Frame rail, Water pump, PAssengers seat, EGR valve, blower resistor, AC ccompressor, Oil leaking behind intake, Air trapped the lame Clutch cylinder, Reverse light switch is out, Cruise control stopped working... Should I really continue??? ... that's only 25% of the list.
And since I spent 12 hours yesterday toggling with this and I spent my money investing in the issue... the only person I see having a right to be pissed is myself so I don't see how anyone would really be bothered by the situation. I'm very thankful for to everyone for takign the time out to help me. No reason to be rude about it "Injuneer." The problem still exist and the car is not fixed... It's just "could be this could be that. But now it's pinpointed to the Vats module. When I got the car I wasn't familiar with the security system and never remembered seeing any Theft light. Really... just not one of those things you pay attention to unless it malfunctions like in this post. Had I know that pulling the courtesy fuse 2 years ago would had intterupted the "theft" light I would had put it back in. But it's kind of silly to blame a light. The light isn't the problem if it came on or not. I put the fuse back in... and the car works normal now. IT works normal with the fuse out also. I have 2 keys and also tried starting the car with either or... and that didn't do the trick. Stil lcna't detirmine for sure but the car starts when it wants to... and Since this all happend after I took my car for an alignment I believe they probably snagged one of the Vats wires with thier steering wheel tool. So I'll look over that again. If anything this post can Help out some others in the same situation. And yes I will continue to rip GM a new one. As long as I'm replacing things I shouldn't have too. Window Motors, Window Frame rail, Water pump, PAssengers seat, EGR valve, blower resistor, AC ccompressor, Oil leaking behind intake, Air trapped the lame Clutch cylinder, Reverse light switch is out, Cruise control stopped working... Should I really continue??? ... that's only 25% of the list.
Last edited by Heatmaker; 08-03-2004 at 02:41 PM.
08-03-2004, 04:29 PM
#44
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Re: I'm tired of this ****!~!!@$#%
Sometimes it pays to take your car to a dealership, GM doesn't expect most people to be able to diagnose their own cars. A GM tech that knows what he's doing could fix that in no time.