is it just me, or do LS1's make much more power than LT1's with less total money?
03-31-2003, 05:36 PM
#16
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Yeah wait till you throw some mods on that LS1 and it blows up, and see how cheap it is then!! I've seen a lot of people jump on this "LS1 is so superior" bandwagon around here. Two of them are blown up right now. The rest of them have piston slap and or use a bunch of oil. You can say what you want about it being a better design, and out of the box I'll agree with you about that, but I don't trust the reliability of it.
John
John
03-31-2003, 05:38 PM
#17
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Anyway, LS1 has a lot of little things that help it like the light-weight driveline. They're both about the same displacement... 90* V8s too... so if you tune them right and get the proper support stuff, you'll get the same power. If the LT1 had aftermarket heads/cam/exhaust/driveline that were to match the stock LS1s, you'd get the same power if not a bit more because of the higher compression ratio. Since you're going to mod both cars and far surpass the stock stuff of the LS1, why not just get the LT1?
03-31-2003, 06:57 PM
#18
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Originally posted by brain
Where does this, "if you tear into the motor, the LT1 is better" nonsense come from? The LS1 is a vastly superior motor in every way, and you can't change the facts. They have 15 degree heads, every port is identical, and they use a direct runner to valve configuration, etc. The bottom end is better, the rods are the strongest chevrolet has used in a small v8. They are manufactured with weight tolerance without balancing than LT1s were with balancing. 6 bolt mains, deep skirt block, and lighter aluminum? No optispark, (which is a great idea, but wasn't manufactured and implemented thoroughly), how much more do you have to hear? Another thing, I forget his name, but one of the guys at SAMs said, "No power is made in the bottom end of a motor", and he's right. As long as it can handle the power, the heads and cam are where the power is made. You're basically trying to compare a 1.5L D15 dual point honda motor to a B18C5 Integra type R motor, but with more differences.
Where does this, "if you tear into the motor, the LT1 is better" nonsense come from? The LS1 is a vastly superior motor in every way, and you can't change the facts. They have 15 degree heads, every port is identical, and they use a direct runner to valve configuration, etc. The bottom end is better, the rods are the strongest chevrolet has used in a small v8. They are manufactured with weight tolerance without balancing than LT1s were with balancing. 6 bolt mains, deep skirt block, and lighter aluminum? No optispark, (which is a great idea, but wasn't manufactured and implemented thoroughly), how much more do you have to hear? Another thing, I forget his name, but one of the guys at SAMs said, "No power is made in the bottom end of a motor", and he's right. As long as it can handle the power, the heads and cam are where the power is made. You're basically trying to compare a 1.5L D15 dual point honda motor to a B18C5 Integra type R motor, but with more differences.
If aluminum is so great, why do most of the big-money project "LS1" cars ditch it in favor of the LQ4? Simple, iron is stronger.
People are going to bitch about the LS1 vs LT1 thing forever, which is stupid because with enough money you can make anything faster than something else. Just buy which ever one you want and mod the hell out of it. And be happy while doing it.
03-31-2003, 07:02 PM
#19
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The only thing a LS1 has on an LT1 is heads. Bolt on vs Bolt on, yes they do beat the LT1 in power. If your putting out big power, I rather have reversed cooled heads, which an LS1 doesn't have.
But as soon as you dig into the engine, spend $5k on a stroker for an LT1, or spend $10K+ on an LS1 stroker, the price differences become quite appearant.
But as soon as you dig into the engine, spend $5k on a stroker for an LT1, or spend $10K+ on an LS1 stroker, the price differences become quite appearant.
03-31-2003, 07:02 PM
#20
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Originally posted by grendal
The heads on LS1's rock..... pretty simple.
However, no "mild cam" LS1 makes 400rwhp... that's a lopey-*** beotch w/ some major lift numbers. FYI
The heads on LS1's rock..... pretty simple.
However, no "mild cam" LS1 makes 400rwhp... that's a lopey-*** beotch w/ some major lift numbers. FYI
I think anyone would classify that cam as a "mild cam".
GM dropped the reverse-cool stuff because it wasn't a necessity with the new head design. Also, according to a few articles I've read where GM engineers were asked..... the LT reverse system is notorious for trapping air.
BTW, the Top Fuel guys are running aluminum Rodeck, Fontana and BAE blocks for the most part.
-Mindgame
Last edited by Mindgame; 03-31-2003 at 07:09 PM.
03-31-2003, 07:09 PM
#21
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Originally posted by Mindgame
the Top Fuel guys are running aluminum Rodeck, Fontana and BAE blocks for the most part.
-Mindgame
the Top Fuel guys are running aluminum Rodeck, Fontana and BAE blocks for the most part.
-Mindgame
BTW, when are you going to start talking about your LT1 Mg?
Many ears need to hear what LT1s can do...
03-31-2003, 07:12 PM
#22
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Agreed Fast, those are quite different animals.... they were designed with 5000+ hp in mind.
I'll give some more details on the LT when I get everything in order.... vac pump, etc.
We have everything right now but I just got back in town and am trying to schedule some dyno time..... maybe ny the end of this week (fingers crossed).
-Mindgame
I'll give some more details on the LT when I get everything in order.... vac pump, etc.
We have everything right now but I just got back in town and am trying to schedule some dyno time..... maybe ny the end of this week (fingers crossed).
-Mindgame
03-31-2003, 07:21 PM
#23
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Nice, I can't wait. I have a feeling that the conversion thing will become quite popular when word gets around.
I think that the big companies need to start making GenI heads in an LT1 style. If Brodix or AFR would come out with a "kit" that would allow us LT1 folk to bolt the higher-end GenIs on, that would be a money-maker. Hang, they should be able to do it since they have all the equipment in-house to cast them. A kit like this would become even more popular than the ol' hotcam kit that we see 159 new threads on every day.
Hmmm...maybe, just maybe we can convince them to do it.
I think that the big companies need to start making GenI heads in an LT1 style. If Brodix or AFR would come out with a "kit" that would allow us LT1 folk to bolt the higher-end GenIs on, that would be a money-maker. Hang, they should be able to do it since they have all the equipment in-house to cast them. A kit like this would become even more popular than the ol' hotcam kit that we see 159 new threads on every day.
Hmmm...maybe, just maybe we can convince them to do it.
03-31-2003, 07:34 PM
#24
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Just to pop into this an LS1 is 348 c.id--kind of weird huh? I like the ls1- I also like the LT1 If I had a choice I would take a 1969 427 or 67 327!! Off post I know!! anyways its a matter of preference--the reason LS1's thump on power is because of the exhaust--it was fully revamped for LS1's and the heads flow better on the exhaust side.
03-31-2003, 08:09 PM
#25
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Kind of bad subject to post in the LT1 tech section but hey. 
Anyway, like brain said, you can't change the facts, the LS1 is a freakin phenomenal engine. I've also owned a LS1 car, i had a 99 Formula M6. With only a 4.10 gear and 2OTL exhaust, the car was unbeliveable, and I have already owned 4 other various Formulas and T/As. In my opinion its definetly a better engine but its all relative. Anything that doesn't have an Optispark is an improvement. Just putting a 305 or bigger cam (the cheapest mod in my opinion that really does anything besides headers) will probably allow you to smoke most LS1 drivers. Whats a 305 cam? $240 plus another hundred or so for tuning and gaskets?
Anyway, like brain said, you can't change the facts, the LS1 is a freakin phenomenal engine. I've also owned a LS1 car, i had a 99 Formula M6. With only a 4.10 gear and 2OTL exhaust, the car was unbeliveable, and I have already owned 4 other various Formulas and T/As. In my opinion its definetly a better engine but its all relative. Anything that doesn't have an Optispark is an improvement. Just putting a 305 or bigger cam (the cheapest mod in my opinion that really does anything besides headers) will probably allow you to smoke most LS1 drivers. Whats a 305 cam? $240 plus another hundred or so for tuning and gaskets?
03-31-2003, 08:21 PM
#26
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Just to pop into this an LS1 is 348 c.id
but you were close GM marketed it as a 350 because thats what most people relate to. Whats a 346, right?
Its not just the peak #s that matter. its also the torque and horsepower curve. while the ls1 with a cam may have a higher hp peak the LT1 with a cam has a broader torque curve and higher torque peak.
Everyone always oooo's and ahhhh's about peak HP and TQ numbers, but simple fact of the matter is that its not peak numbers, but area under the curve that really matters. If you look at dyno graphs, the LS1's usually have peak-ier graphs, while the LT1's are typically more of a flat graph. So when you look at area like this, yes the LS1 still wins, but the LT1 is not as bad as peak numbers make it look...
Something to think about...
03-31-2003, 09:03 PM
#27
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Originally posted by brain
Another thing, I forget his name, but one of the guys at SAMs said, "No power is made in the bottom end of a motor", and he's right. .
Another thing, I forget his name, but one of the guys at SAMs said, "No power is made in the bottom end of a motor", and he's right. .
This is NOT true, The bore and stroke have an impact on end
torque. the bottom end does hold some power secrets
03-31-2003, 09:10 PM
#28
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The fact that the LS1 has a 6 bolt main is always brought up as a good thing. Just to ask a question....Isn't it a six bolt because of the flexibility of the aluminum block versus the non flex of the iron block? Just curious.
03-31-2003, 09:21 PM
#29
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Originally posted by JeffK
The fact that the LS1 has a 6 bolt main is always brought up as a good thing. Just to ask a question....Isn't it a six bolt because of the flexibility of the aluminum block versus the non flex of the iron block? Just curious.
The fact that the LS1 has a 6 bolt main is always brought up as a good thing. Just to ask a question....Isn't it a six bolt because of the flexibility of the aluminum block versus the non flex of the iron block? Just curious.
-Michael
03-31-2003, 09:29 PM
#30
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Well for the home mechanic the LT1 is the better engine.Would anyone here pull the heads off a LS1 and port them yourself?I know i would'nt but i did port my LT1 heads and got very good results because a mild port job on these heads is'nt that big a job but give me a set of LS1 heads and i would'nt have a clue where to start.Now i have never seen a LS1 engine bay in person but i have seen pictures and it looks like a mechanic's worst nightmare but the LT1 isn't that bad once you get working on it. 