Javier97Z28

It does seem strange, but I don't think the issues revolve around the product. I imagine Lloyd is pretty darn consistent with his work (after all, he has sold quite a few of them), and the same machine shop that worked on my heads for Lloyd most likely does his other heads too. So a fault in the heads I highly doubt. The cam is a moot point, computer programmed design, same everytime unless Comp ****s it up.

I hear ya on the tons of dyno #'s... those don't impress me and never will until I see the car perform on the track. Hell, I haven't even dyno'd my car once with this motor, didn't even dyno my cam-only setup that ran so well.

You know, I know there have been jokes thrown around about Ai customers vs. LE customers, about their wallet size or willingness to spend, or even if Ai customers are just... "smarter?"....

I'm starting to think it may be partially true. I'm not sure what the % of customers are that go to Lloyd over Ai... from the amount of posts on the board it seems Lloyd gets more of 'em. Could be b/c he's a current sponsor, but who the hell knows. What I'm getting at is looking at alot of the setups and seeing numbers posted when I can see all the shortcuts and poor setups some of the LE guys have, and I also notice for many of the "slow" cars, this is their first "big setup"... they've gone from bolt-ons to a 383 w/ ported heads, etc... maybe even their first time working inside a motor.

It seems silly, but that's the trend I've been seeing. I personally have gone through a few different setups to get where I'm at now, and I'm still working at it. After alot of the initial times posted, I never see an "oh I fixed the problem" followup.

It's a little disconcerting, but I think the problem lies in the hands of the inexperienced/broke user, and not Lloyd.

Sweetred95ta

It took me a couple of years (mostly because I was away at school) of poking around with my setup before I finally got decent dyno #'s out of it (and it's still not right). I haven't really had a chance to get it to the track the way it is, but I can tell you that my base pull with the exact same setup, 3 years ago, was 330 rwhp. I think alot of people slap these setups together and expect performance w/out having the patience to debug. I honestly think both setups will perform similarly, given all bugs are worked out. It seems to me that there is a majority of the 'younger' crowd that goes with LE, which may add to the impatience and inexperience. Just my observation.

NightTrain66

when comparing prices, make sure and find out what parts and being used and replaced.

My LE2 heads use Ferrea 6000 series valves and the PAC bee hive springs, 10 degree locks and retainers. Pretty expensive parts list on a $1400 set of heads.

The LE3 heads require valve seats to be changed to use the Ferrea 2.055/1.60 valves and also have bronze liners installed (we consider this a MUST when changing seats). If you compare prices to a set of heads wo no bronze liners and stock valve setas, the price chould be $300 less.

I have quite a few B bodys that run hard and out run similar set up B bodys (weight, gear, stall, etc) with other companies heads and cam set ups.

We have a LE2 package on a 383 that made 466 RWHP. This is with 561 castings and my standard hyd roller LE2 cam for a 383 (mid 230 duration int/ex). No 1 7/8 headers or exotic parts used.

You are gonna find people with good/bad results with any set of heads. We all know this is a result of parts selection and attention to detail. Same with track times. Track times are all about 60 ft, weight and everything else mentioned here.

I would love to have a set of my heads on ricks car and put the car in the 9.80's but I have yet to hear from him.

Regardless, just call and talk to either company and see what parts are used how soon the work can be done and how much $$$ you are looking at. If you are honest with your goals, you can get a set of heads and cam from either company to do what you want. If you get heads from either company, the heads will not be the deciding factor if the car makes good power. The other parts in the equation and attention to detail will be the hold up.

If you expect good track times, get a good 60 ft and get the car as light as possible. 2.0 60 fts and 3800 lb race weight will produce crummy track times with even 450 RWHP. A 1.40 60 ft and 3300 lb race weight will produce impressive track times at 375 RWHP.

SS MPSTR

...fairly optimistic statement, no?

mdacton

do you know these guys personally? reason I ask is b/c they just aren't into the whole net drama stuff.......

Ricks car is not just a set of heads......he had alot of hard work to get where he is.


SS MPSTR: I'm not jumping in your **** but I just think you give them a bad name by argueing

SS MPSTR

First, who do I know personally? Ron and Phil at AI? Yes.

What exactly have I been arguing? If you read the (longer) post on here, my argument isn't just the heads at all.

mdacton

No offense or anything like that...I will be heading down there in the morning...one comment he made today was just about the internet and whats said. And how they want no parts of the argueing

96LT1TX

I will just say that at my DA (5800 ft) no track times are good. I am very happy with Lloyd's work and cant wait to upgrade my heads to LE2s to make my times even better.

Like he said, can't run good times with a 2.0 60'... my best is a 2.05 and I am still happy.

Slicks and tuner cat coming and I should be doing even better.

Thanks Lloyd, tempted to get those bigger valves...

btw, why are you people arguing and name calling? this makes no sense... All that matters is are the customers happy with what they get.

jasonisdn

you should have said something earlier. you could have taken my head gaskets back and picked my new ones . lol i would have paid for your lunch at a steak house.
as far as them not wating to argue, you are correct. they think its pointless. the numbers and et's prove that thier product is up to par and they know how to have a cam made to match their heads. i can promise you that after you meet them today you will like them as good down to earth people and appricate their product. take a few pics of the 5 axis cnc machine while you are there.

Zigroid

Thats the truth. I went from boltons to an LE3 383 with a 3500 stall. my first track outing was in the mid 13s @ 103 with the 383. my best with boltons was a 13.8 @ 102. after fixing bugs (with many many more to go) I got it down to a mid 12 @ 113 with 2.2 60's on street tires. unfortunately I spun a rod bearing a week later and parted out most of the engine. IF I would have started with boltons, then went to a stall, then a cam, then heads, then ported intake, then 383 with same heads and cam, then better heads and cam I can guarantee I would've been running mid-high 11s @ 118ish.

Dont forget that different tracks produce different e.t.s. and trap speeds like the dude that races in 5800 DA. my LE3 383 WAS a strong running car as evidenced by what cars I would waste on the street. only car that beat me was a 480 rwhp LS1 transam w/ spray... and that wasnt by much.

I literally LOL'ed when I read that!

Z-RATED94

Gotta love a class act. Doesn't matter if you admire their work (AI) and some of the cars that use their H/C set-ups. If you even think about using anyone but them, you don't have a clue. Is that how it works?
Talked to Phil years ago when he was an up and comer with his porting. Came away with a less than satisfactory feeling about the direction I was trying to take. Like I said, this was some years back, things change. I then called Lloyd and the man was a fountain of information and had the time to almost talk my ear off. I liked that. Because if your a gearhead you can't get enough car talk. A few days later, I posted a question for you guys and guess who calls me on his dime? Ding, Ding, you got it, Lloyd. Talked again for a long time. Do I think he's the best head porter out there? Probably not, and I don't think he would assume that either. But then again, I can't afford the best out there, and neither can most on this board. But I'm happy with the way my parts selection turned out and find it was a very good bang for the buck in purchasing Lloyds heads. In fact I have a stock set sitting in the garage that will go to him for his latest work once this motor gives up the ghost.
You want a AI set-up, thats fine with me. You want a LE or other set-up, that works too. Just passing on my experience. OK SS MPSTR, do your thing.

97bowtie

I think the reason you don't see as many AI setup results is because there aren't as many AI setups, at least on this board. Maybe that's a result of LE being a sponsor, maybe AI is targeting a different market, I don't know. Both will make good power and just because you choose one over the other doesn't mean your setup is better - that's confirmation bias and doesn't change the track times you run with your setup. Let the numbers speak and ignore the bickering and you'll be much better off.

My goal was to have a 120 mph street car and I'm close to that in mediocre conditions with 3.23s behind the 6 speed. Could I have gone with a set of ported AFRs or Trickflows and trapped 123-125? Sure, but I started with a goal and a budget and that's what you have to do. Nobody else should determine either of those for you.

1SlowFormula

This is why I made the comment I did right after this thread was posted, this happens every time this topic comes up...

speed_demon24

I've said this a million times, my car is NEVER going to run good e.t.'s it's not setup for the 1/4, drag racing is boring to me.

SS RRR

Well.. at least run a significantly higher ET so you'll be assured the money was well spent.