Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
03-28-2006, 06:00 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 66
Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
I have run into quite a bit of trouble trying to get my headers installed on my car and need some advice. I was originally putting headers on the car due to already having to fix a leak caused by a manifold gasket problem (speculation).
After about 14 hours or so I got both manifolds out of the engine bay and slid the new headers up in there. I soon found out that I couldn't get some of the bolts started.
Bolt Hole Problems:
1.Come to find out on the passenger side, the bolt hole nearest the cab had a broken off bolt in it....not my doing.
2.On the driver side there are two bolt holes toward the cab. Only one is used depending on application. I assumed the inner hole was used for stock manifolds but my passenger side manifold has a hole in it for the inner hole and my driver side manifold and used gasket have holes for both of the bolts. The outer bolt hole looks like it has been majorly tampered with and will not accept a bolt. When we took the driver side manifold off there was only the inner hole had a bolt in it and it was not the same size bolt as the rest of the header bolts. I assume this was due to tampering.
Also, my headers only have a hole for the outer bolt hole....but it looks like drilling a hole in the header to use the inner bolt hole would be feasible.
3.There is another bolt hole on the driver side that isn't actually a hole, it seems to be filled with something....jb weld or something. Not sure about this either.
I do not want to do any kind of rigging to get this to work. I want to do it right. It looks like during a plug install or attempted header install somebody had some serious problems and just slapped everything back together lackadaisically....and this is why I have an exhaust leak.
I have done a fair amount of research and it looks like I have two options.
Options:
1. Attempt to repair all of the holes while the heads are still on the engine. There is some room to work since there are no manifolds on the car but it is limited. I have read where some people have been able to extract bolts with the head still on the engine, but most end up breaking the extraction tool. Tapping or helicoiling would be difficult also I would assume, but feasible?
I have more recently thought that the easiest thing to do would be to drill holes in the headers to utilize the inner holes, this would solve two of the bolt hole problems and leave me with only having to repair one of them.
2. Go ahead and pull the heads off the car and then take them to machinist where I can guaranty to have the holes properly threaded. I have read that tapping a head costs about 10$ and if they helicoil it runs around 15$. I would be more than willing to pay a professional to have this done once I got the heads off. I have tried to research the difficulty on pulling the heads and most people cite pulling the manifolds off as the most difficult part....which I already have done. But I would also have to take the IM, powersteering, and a bunch of other stuff I probably don't even know about. The procedure for pulling the heads off doesn't seem to be nearly as well documented as most of the car projects I have done (including headers). I pretty much would need to buy a helms service manual or something before I would attempt this.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to get my car back up and running before this summer.
Thanks a bunch,
-Gabriel Terrel
After about 14 hours or so I got both manifolds out of the engine bay and slid the new headers up in there. I soon found out that I couldn't get some of the bolts started.
Bolt Hole Problems:
1.Come to find out on the passenger side, the bolt hole nearest the cab had a broken off bolt in it....not my doing.
2.On the driver side there are two bolt holes toward the cab. Only one is used depending on application. I assumed the inner hole was used for stock manifolds but my passenger side manifold has a hole in it for the inner hole and my driver side manifold and used gasket have holes for both of the bolts. The outer bolt hole looks like it has been majorly tampered with and will not accept a bolt. When we took the driver side manifold off there was only the inner hole had a bolt in it and it was not the same size bolt as the rest of the header bolts. I assume this was due to tampering.
Also, my headers only have a hole for the outer bolt hole....but it looks like drilling a hole in the header to use the inner bolt hole would be feasible.
3.There is another bolt hole on the driver side that isn't actually a hole, it seems to be filled with something....jb weld or something. Not sure about this either.
I do not want to do any kind of rigging to get this to work. I want to do it right. It looks like during a plug install or attempted header install somebody had some serious problems and just slapped everything back together lackadaisically....and this is why I have an exhaust leak.
I have done a fair amount of research and it looks like I have two options.
Options:
1. Attempt to repair all of the holes while the heads are still on the engine. There is some room to work since there are no manifolds on the car but it is limited. I have read where some people have been able to extract bolts with the head still on the engine, but most end up breaking the extraction tool. Tapping or helicoiling would be difficult also I would assume, but feasible?
I have more recently thought that the easiest thing to do would be to drill holes in the headers to utilize the inner holes, this would solve two of the bolt hole problems and leave me with only having to repair one of them.
2. Go ahead and pull the heads off the car and then take them to machinist where I can guaranty to have the holes properly threaded. I have read that tapping a head costs about 10$ and if they helicoil it runs around 15$. I would be more than willing to pay a professional to have this done once I got the heads off. I have tried to research the difficulty on pulling the heads and most people cite pulling the manifolds off as the most difficult part....which I already have done. But I would also have to take the IM, powersteering, and a bunch of other stuff I probably don't even know about. The procedure for pulling the heads off doesn't seem to be nearly as well documented as most of the car projects I have done (including headers). I pretty much would need to buy a helms service manual or something before I would attempt this.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to get my car back up and running before this summer.
Thanks a bunch,
-Gabriel Terrel
Last edited by archangelus2; 03-28-2006 at 06:13 PM.
03-28-2006, 06:16 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: LakeLand, Florida
Posts: 660
Re: Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
I would pull the heads off. You have to many issues with the bolt holes on both sides. If only 1 bolt hole was messed up then I would try to fix it on the car. But in your case, go the extra mile and pull them off. Get them retapped. I wouldn't redrill the headers. Just fix the heads.
Think about it for a minute. Let's say you did redrill the headers and down the road they leaked. Now what. You would have to take the whole thing apart including the heads to fix the heads that should have been done in the begining. And now you have extra holes in your new headers.
Think about it for a minute. Let's say you did redrill the headers and down the road they leaked. Now what. You would have to take the whole thing apart including the heads to fix the heads that should have been done in the begining. And now you have extra holes in your new headers.
03-28-2006, 06:20 PM
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: TX
Posts: 3,523
Re: Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
Well seeing that bolt hole being filled makes me think you might have better luck pulling them and having a machine shop at least inspect them. That would be my first suggestion. Second suggestion is to give it the old college try and see if you cant pull those broken bolts and use the outside hole on the headers. No need to drill the headers to make use of different threads. Good luck. My real advice is to pull those heads and get a real good look at them. They make me nervous looking at those holes.
03-28-2006, 07:01 PM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 907
Re: Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
I will concur with the other two- popping the heads off is your best option to make sure its done right. If something was half-assed here, I would begin to wonder what else got screwed-up on the car..
03-29-2006, 06:00 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 66
Re: Majorly in need of advice on bolts in head
Well after considering many views I think I am going to try and fix it while the heads are on the car. I forgot to mention that I am in college and I have to drive my car home (where all my tools are, can't keep them in the dorm) to fix it.
So it is still sitting at home and I can only work on it over the weekends, assuming I can get a ride (100 miles). Pulling the heads is beyond the scope of any car work I have done, the closest I have gotten was replacing the valve cover gaskets on my probe gt, as I had to pull the IM and about 2 dozen vacuum hoses. I can't afford for anything else to go wrong and suck up more time while i was pulling the heads.
I think I am going to first try to drill out that gunk in the center hole and see if there are any threads to work with, if they can be retapped or if it needs a helicoil.....and hopefully one of those things will work.
Then I will try pulling the broken bolt out on the other side. Drilling holes in the headers doesn't seem like too big of an issue and would save me alot of time with minimal consequence.
If anybody has any advice concerning drilling/tapping/helicoiling in tight spaces let me know. I am going to try and get a hold of some right angle drill attachments....maybe even a right angle dremel attachment.
Thanks for the advice and any more is greatly appreciated.
So it is still sitting at home and I can only work on it over the weekends, assuming I can get a ride (100 miles). Pulling the heads is beyond the scope of any car work I have done, the closest I have gotten was replacing the valve cover gaskets on my probe gt, as I had to pull the IM and about 2 dozen vacuum hoses. I can't afford for anything else to go wrong and suck up more time while i was pulling the heads.
I think I am going to first try to drill out that gunk in the center hole and see if there are any threads to work with, if they can be retapped or if it needs a helicoil.....and hopefully one of those things will work.
Then I will try pulling the broken bolt out on the other side. Drilling holes in the headers doesn't seem like too big of an issue and would save me alot of time with minimal consequence.
If anybody has any advice concerning drilling/tapping/helicoiling in tight spaces let me know. I am going to try and get a hold of some right angle drill attachments....maybe even a right angle dremel attachment.
Thanks for the advice and any more is greatly appreciated.
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