Max lift #'s with these flow #'s
02-08-2004, 02:43 AM
#1
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Location: Carol Stream, Il.
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Max lift #'s with these flow #'s
If these were your heads, what cam would get the most out of these flow numbers? I'm looking to optimize these heads without going into overkill mode. Please keep in mind this is for a stock short block with 28000 miles on it and that I don't want to spin past 6500 RPM.
.100 65 54
.200 137 109
.300 199 153
.400 241 174
.450 257 183
.500 265 185
.550 267 189
.600 268 192
These heads have 195cc intake ports and Ferrea 2.00/1.56 valves.
I've been told these mid lift #'s look pretty good for stock LT1 castings. But to me it looks like the exhaust to intake ratio could use some help after .300 lift and both #'s fall off fairly quick after .500 lift.
What kind of duration and lift numbers would best suit these heads? Quality supporting valvetrain parts have already been purchased, along with 3.73 gears. (Longtubes in the works).
TIA Rick
.100 65 54
.200 137 109
.300 199 153
.400 241 174
.450 257 183
.500 265 185
.550 267 189
.600 268 192
These heads have 195cc intake ports and Ferrea 2.00/1.56 valves.
I've been told these mid lift #'s look pretty good for stock LT1 castings. But to me it looks like the exhaust to intake ratio could use some help after .300 lift and both #'s fall off fairly quick after .500 lift.
What kind of duration and lift numbers would best suit these heads? Quality supporting valvetrain parts have already been purchased, along with 3.73 gears. (Longtubes in the works).
TIA Rick
02-08-2004, 02:47 AM
#2
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 2,195
if you want to optimize your combo, dont bother with an off the shelf grind, give all your info to a professional and let them taylor a cam to your vehicle!
it might cost a few bucks more but the power and driveability will outweigh the extra cost IMO
go custom!
it might cost a few bucks more but the power and driveability will outweigh the extra cost IMO
go custom!
02-08-2004, 03:10 AM
#3
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Thanks Simple,
It's just that sometimes when you call a shop they give you less time on the phone than what it took you to type your reply. I've already called a few places that were real quick in suggesting off the shelf cams. I quess I'm just hopeing one of the big guns will see this post and help out the little guy.
By the way, nice times with your mods and 60ft. Looks like a solid low 13's with a little traction.
It's just that sometimes when you call a shop they give you less time on the phone than what it took you to type your reply. I've already called a few places that were real quick in suggesting off the shelf cams. I quess I'm just hopeing one of the big guns will see this post and help out the little guy.
By the way, nice times with your mods and 60ft. Looks like a solid low 13's with a little traction.
02-08-2004, 03:19 AM
#4
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Location: Springfield, IL
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thanks man....i think its a 12sec car with a 13sec driver
you ever heard of Joe Overton? do a lil searching here under that name and maybe talk with him a little bit about setting you up with a cam!
he is who i'll be going with for a cam to match my AI heads!
who better to let do it then a guy that runs 9.70's NA with an LT1!!?
you ever heard of Joe Overton? do a lil searching here under that name and maybe talk with him a little bit about setting you up with a cam!
he is who i'll be going with for a cam to match my AI heads!
who better to let do it then a guy that runs 9.70's NA with an LT1!!?
02-08-2004, 03:37 AM
#5
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simple,
I have thought about Overton, just wish I had his e-mail address so he could reply at his leisure. I hate to use up his time if he's busy at work on a project.
On another note, any reason you did'nt go with Phil's cam.
I have thought about Overton, just wish I had his e-mail address so he could reply at his leisure. I hate to use up his time if he's busy at work on a project.
On another note, any reason you did'nt go with Phil's cam.
02-08-2004, 04:00 AM
#6
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Location: Springfield, IL
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i was more impressed with the numbers guys were putting down with the 847,i was gonna use that..... then i decided (after alot of researching) i want to put down more then what those guys with the 847's were doing, so i'm going custom plus i like to know what i have in my car and Phil wouldnt spill the beans on the '211' cam.....
after lots and lots of reading on here and other places about cams and combination, i see alot of potential that is 'wasted' with off the shelf cams, even tho alot of those cams are proven performers, i just think there is alot more to be had......ya know?
after lots and lots of reading on here and other places about cams and combination, i see alot of potential that is 'wasted' with off the shelf cams, even tho alot of those cams are proven performers, i just think there is alot more to be had......ya know?
Last edited by simple; 02-08-2004 at 04:03 AM.
02-08-2004, 04:22 AM
#7
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simple,
Know what you mean. I could list at least 4 guys and or shops that will sell you a cam, and not tell you what your buying. Not that you can't have it checked and spill your guts to everyone else, so whats the point in the big secret? If they have something special do you think their going to sell it to the general public?
Know what you mean. I could list at least 4 guys and or shops that will sell you a cam, and not tell you what your buying. Not that you can't have it checked and spill your guts to everyone else, so whats the point in the big secret? If they have something special do you think their going to sell it to the general public?
02-08-2004, 04:32 AM
#8
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Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 2,195
i dont want to turn this into a debate about why some places/people dont wanna give info on things, thats a whole nother can of worms
Phil is a straight shooter kind of guy and i wanted more power then what i saw out of his cam is why i chose not too, more so then because he wouldnt tell me!
neway here is another site you could look at and read and maybe get a cam from www.elgincams.com ......heard many good things about Dema Elgin!
Phil is a straight shooter kind of guy and i wanted more power then what i saw out of his cam is why i chose not too, more so then because he wouldnt tell me!
neway here is another site you could look at and read and maybe get a cam from
www.elgincams.com ......heard many good things about Dema Elgin!
02-08-2004, 04:48 AM
#9
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Simple,
Your right about the can of worms. Didn't mean to go there. And by no means am I knocking Phil. He was a straight shooter with me, even though I did not purchase anything from him. It's the fact that I offered to paypal someone else the money for a cam and that he would still not give the specs.
Good luck with your project and thanks for the input.
Your right about the can of worms. Didn't mean to go there. And by no means am I knocking Phil. He was a straight shooter with me, even though I did not purchase anything from him. It's the fact that I offered to paypal someone else the money for a cam and that he would still not give the specs.
Good luck with your project and thanks for the input.
02-08-2004, 09:46 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
Originally posted by Z-RATED94
simple,
I have thought about Overton, just wish I had his e-mail address so he could reply at his leisure. I hate to use up his time if he's busy at work on a project.
On another note, any reason you did'nt go with Phil's cam.
simple,
I have thought about Overton, just wish I had his e-mail address so he could reply at his leisure. I hate to use up his time if he's busy at work on a project.
On another note, any reason you did'nt go with Phil's cam.
02-08-2004, 09:49 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,931
Originally posted by Z-RATED94
Thanks Simple,
It's just that sometimes when you call a shop they give you less time on the phone than what it took you to type your reply. I've already called a few places that were real quick in suggesting off the shelf cams. I quess I'm just hopeing one of the big guns will see this post and help out the little guy.
By the way, nice times with your mods and 60ft. Looks like a solid low 13's with a little traction.
Thanks Simple,
It's just that sometimes when you call a shop they give you less time on the phone than what it took you to type your reply. I've already called a few places that were real quick in suggesting off the shelf cams. I quess I'm just hopeing one of the big guns will see this post and help out the little guy.
By the way, nice times with your mods and 60ft. Looks like a solid low 13's with a little traction.
I've seen it work both ways: pay for the advice or pay for the cam. Assuming the engine guy isn't charging way over the market price for the cam, both you and he win.
Z-Rated, If you are as serious in your telephone inquiry as you are here, and are willing to buy either parts or advice, you'll find engine guys who will listen. About the only way you are going to get "free" advice is from the cam company "Tech" lines, but that's not the best way to get a custom cam. Remember, even if you don't buy it from them directly, and use Jegs or Summit, etc. they are going to get paid because they spec'd out one of their own cams. Econ 101 again.
My $.02
02-08-2004, 01:39 PM
#12
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OldSStroker,
I did not mean for my comments to turn into a mini rant. And I agree that the people you ask for help should make a reasonable profit for their time and knowledge. I recently purchased my valvetrian parts from someone you know. He was very helpfull and gave me some good advice. Even with the purchase I'm sure he did not make enough for the time he put in.
As far as my question about what cam with my flow #'s. Does anyone else think the exhaust side needs help, and what kind of lift can these heads support?
I've got about 3 more months before good weather and looking for all the input anyone might have.
Thanks again
I did not mean for my comments to turn into a mini rant. And I agree that the people you ask for help should make a reasonable profit for their time and knowledge. I recently purchased my valvetrian parts from someone you know. He was very helpfull and gave me some good advice. Even with the purchase I'm sure he did not make enough for the time he put in.
As far as my question about what cam with my flow #'s. Does anyone else think the exhaust side needs help, and what kind of lift can these heads support?
I've got about 3 more months before good weather and looking for all the input anyone might have.
Thanks again
02-08-2004, 05:50 PM
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Red Oak Texas
Posts: 1,509
as far as lift, go as high as you chave valve springs for. Most will pick some thing between .540-.580 lift.
The duration at .050 and LSA will have alot to do with the RPM that it starts and stops making HP at.
You will probably get about 6-12 degrees more duration at .050 on most LT1 cams and this woudl probably be no different.
These are "basics" that almost any cam grinder (or catalog cam picker) will suggest or offer.
The things that these "custom" cam people do is look at the timing events (IO,IC,EO,EC, overlap, DCR, etc) and make certain events happen at certain degrees of crank rotation to ensure the cam is gonna trap the right amount of cylinder pressure and have the right power band for you.
Just think, if the intake valve closes at the RIGHT time, you will have the cylinder filled as much as possible and then shutting the valve will keep the cylinder filled. If it closes "a lil" before that, you have not fully filled the cylinders, if you close the intake valve "a lil" too late, you have wasted HP since the mixture will flow back up the intake port, etc.
The amount of overlap is important as well. If you have the right amount of overlap, the intake and exhaust valves will stay open just long enough to give the intake port a good yank and then the exhaut valve will shut.
Just imagine the timing events beingf correct on Intake valve opening, closingt, exhaust valve opening and closing along with the correct amount of overlap......... This is why a custom cam can make more HP with the same lift/duratuion, the same HP with smaller lift/duration, more low end with the same top end, the same low end with more top end, etc. etc. They are just more "thought out" and are not wasting things like most catalog cams are.
There is ALOT more to cams but this just goes to show how important a GOOD cam is and how the extra $$$ spent on one is WELL worth it if you are really after all you can get.
Lloyd,
NightTrain66@msn.com
The duration at .050 and LSA will have alot to do with the RPM that it starts and stops making HP at.
You will probably get about 6-12 degrees more duration at .050 on most LT1 cams and this woudl probably be no different.
These are "basics" that almost any cam grinder (or catalog cam picker) will suggest or offer.
The things that these "custom" cam people do is look at the timing events (IO,IC,EO,EC, overlap, DCR, etc) and make certain events happen at certain degrees of crank rotation to ensure the cam is gonna trap the right amount of cylinder pressure and have the right power band for you.
Just think, if the intake valve closes at the RIGHT time, you will have the cylinder filled as much as possible and then shutting the valve will keep the cylinder filled. If it closes "a lil" before that, you have not fully filled the cylinders, if you close the intake valve "a lil" too late, you have wasted HP since the mixture will flow back up the intake port, etc.
The amount of overlap is important as well. If you have the right amount of overlap, the intake and exhaust valves will stay open just long enough to give the intake port a good yank and then the exhaut valve will shut.
Just imagine the timing events beingf correct on Intake valve opening, closingt, exhaust valve opening and closing along with the correct amount of overlap......... This is why a custom cam can make more HP with the same lift/duratuion, the same HP with smaller lift/duration, more low end with the same top end, the same low end with more top end, etc. etc. They are just more "thought out" and are not wasting things like most catalog cams are.
There is ALOT more to cams but this just goes to show how important a GOOD cam is and how the extra $$$ spent on one is WELL worth it if you are really after all you can get.
Lloyd,
NightTrain66@msn.com
02-08-2004, 07:49 PM
#14
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Location: Carol Stream, Il.
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Lloyd,
Thanks for your response. These are the things that I will probably never quite grasp. Even if I had the proper software I,m sure there's nothing like real world experience to go along with it.
That's why I posted my flow #'s. Maybe someone else like yourself (who is always very helpfull) would shed some light on this black magic, when it comes to picking the right cam for a given set of heads and supporting mods.
Thanks for your response. These are the things that I will probably never quite grasp. Even if I had the proper software I,m sure there's nothing like real world experience to go along with it.
That's why I posted my flow #'s. Maybe someone else like yourself (who is always very helpfull) would shed some light on this black magic, when it comes to picking the right cam for a given set of heads and supporting mods.
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