Pro Performance Heads, Cont...
11-03-2002 | 04:23 PM
#61
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 128
From: Tx
I've seen this scenario played out over and over again:
Experienced porter does excellent work on a few sets of cylinder heads. His clients are all ecstatic over the performance increase, they run off and spread the word. Porter soon gets more heads than he can possibly handle by himself. So what's the porter to do, well he subs the work out, simply thankful for the volume of work/$$ now generated. Porter fails to QC the work he subbed out... work is less than exceptional.... then we have a scenario like the one we've been reading.
Rule #1, (for all you aspiring business people) never accept more work than you can handle.
Rule #2, if you do, then you had better check everything before that work goes out to the customer because it is your responsibility and yours alone!
This is the sole reason I'd never get into a "production porting" type business..... unless I could do it via CNC.
The lesson here is a hard one but I've been around the business long enough to have a very good understanding of what goes on.
It is important to understand that, if I were to tell you that Ron Shaver (for instance) is an excellent head porter and you should send your heads to his shop. That does not mean that Ron's going to be doing the work! Most likely he's not, because he's too busy working on the big $ stuff.
Most of you already know this but you'd be surprised how many people think that John Lingenfelter himself ported their heads.
Sorry to see stuff like this happen but, as Rich so eloquently put it, you've got to do your homework. Best of luck to you.
Chuck Riddeck
Progressive Race Engine Development
Experienced porter does excellent work on a few sets of cylinder heads. His clients are all ecstatic over the performance increase, they run off and spread the word. Porter soon gets more heads than he can possibly handle by himself. So what's the porter to do, well he subs the work out, simply thankful for the volume of work/$$ now generated. Porter fails to QC the work he subbed out... work is less than exceptional.... then we have a scenario like the one we've been reading.
Rule #1, (for all you aspiring business people) never accept more work than you can handle.
Rule #2, if you do, then you had better check everything before that work goes out to the customer because it is your responsibility and yours alone!
This is the sole reason I'd never get into a "production porting" type business..... unless I could do it via CNC.
The lesson here is a hard one but I've been around the business long enough to have a very good understanding of what goes on.
It is important to understand that, if I were to tell you that Ron Shaver (for instance) is an excellent head porter and you should send your heads to his shop. That does not mean that Ron's going to be doing the work! Most likely he's not, because he's too busy working on the big $ stuff.
Most of you already know this but you'd be surprised how many people think that John Lingenfelter himself ported their heads.
Sorry to see stuff like this happen but, as Rich so eloquently put it, you've got to do your homework. Best of luck to you.
Chuck Riddeck
Progressive Race Engine Development
11-03-2002 | 04:41 PM
#62
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 214
From: DFW
Originally posted by INTMD8
http://66.228.67.107/SkarodoM/heads/...tleWingssm.jpg
If you look at this picture and you know what you are looking at than this would be hilarious to you. By the look of the port, they probably ported away the whole valve-guide and had to replace it, leaving the small aluminum "winglet" pictured.
http://66.228.67.107/SkarodoM/heads/...tleWingssm.jpg
If you look at this picture and you know what you are looking at than this would be hilarious to you.
By the look of the port, they probably ported away the whole valve-guide and had to replace it, leaving the small aluminum "winglet" pictured.
. I got the idea from your post that you were taking up for PP. LOL Phil, I clicked on the link at the bottom of your post. Your webpage is pretty impressive. Do you hand port them or do you guys do CNC work.
Justin
Last edited by 96vortechSS; 11-03-2002 at 06:33 PM.
11-03-2002 | 09:31 PM
#66
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 924
From: SE Michigan
Damn Phil, Those are some REALLY impressive numbers!
I've been thinking about doing mine over the winter and was looking at a number of heads. Mainly leaning towards the GTP stage II heads along with the cc305 cam. That is until I seen your dyno sheet. I've got a few questions first though, so when I'm sure if I want to do this project I'll shoot ya an email. But I just wanted to compliment you on your work.
I've been thinking about doing mine over the winter and was looking at a number of heads. Mainly leaning towards the GTP stage II heads along with the cc305 cam. That is until I seen your dyno sheet. I've got a few questions first though, so when I'm sure if I want to do this project I'll shoot ya an email. But I just wanted to compliment you on your work.
11-03-2002 | 09:37 PM
#67
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by Mr. Horsepower
I've seen this scenario played out over and over again:
Experienced porter does excellent work on a few sets of cylinder heads. His clients are all ecstatic over the performance increase, they run off and spread the word. Porter soon gets more heads than he can possibly handle by himself. So what's the porter to do, well he subs the work out, simply thankful for the volume of work/$$ now generated. Porter fails to QC the work he subbed out... work is less than exceptional.... then we have a scenario like the one we've been reading.
Rule #1, (for all you aspiring business people) never accept more work than you can handle.
Rule #2, if you do, then you had better check everything before that work goes out to the customer because it is your responsibility and yours alone!
This is the sole reason I'd never get into a "production porting" type business..... unless I could do it via CNC.
The lesson here is a hard one but I've been around the business long enough to have a very good understanding of what goes on.
It is important to understand that, if I were to tell you that Ron Shaver (for instance) is an excellent head porter and you should send your heads to his shop. That does not mean that Ron's going to be doing the work! Most likely he's not, because he's too busy working on the big $ stuff.
Most of you already know this but you'd be surprised how many people think that John Lingenfelter himself ported their heads.
Sorry to see stuff like this happen but, as Rich so eloquently put it, you've got to do your homework. Best of luck to you.
Chuck Riddeck
Progressive Race Engine Development
I've seen this scenario played out over and over again:
Experienced porter does excellent work on a few sets of cylinder heads. His clients are all ecstatic over the performance increase, they run off and spread the word. Porter soon gets more heads than he can possibly handle by himself. So what's the porter to do, well he subs the work out, simply thankful for the volume of work/$$ now generated. Porter fails to QC the work he subbed out... work is less than exceptional.... then we have a scenario like the one we've been reading.
Rule #1, (for all you aspiring business people) never accept more work than you can handle.
Rule #2, if you do, then you had better check everything before that work goes out to the customer because it is your responsibility and yours alone!
This is the sole reason I'd never get into a "production porting" type business..... unless I could do it via CNC.
The lesson here is a hard one but I've been around the business long enough to have a very good understanding of what goes on.
It is important to understand that, if I were to tell you that Ron Shaver (for instance) is an excellent head porter and you should send your heads to his shop. That does not mean that Ron's going to be doing the work! Most likely he's not, because he's too busy working on the big $ stuff.
Most of you already know this but you'd be surprised how many people think that John Lingenfelter himself ported their heads.
Sorry to see stuff like this happen but, as Rich so eloquently put it, you've got to do your homework. Best of luck to you.
Chuck Riddeck
Progressive Race Engine Development
You were one of the first guys I really noticed when I joing a year and half ago
11-03-2002 | 11:27 PM
#68
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,305
From: North Vancouver, BC
Just look at my sig, this is the so called reputable shop, don't worry the next person got worse numbers who baught them, & the shop said the heads were awesome once again, I'm not the only one, so don't diss a compnay just cuz they f'ked up a bit atleast their heads make power & don't cost an arm & a leg.
11-03-2002 | 11:40 PM
#69
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,148
From: Bay Area, CA
I dont know what A4 guys run in your neck of the woods, but where I live a guy who never opened the engine, no blower, no nitrous, is running 12.5x times with an A4 LT1.
Mail order tuning isn't much of a help though.
Mail order tuning isn't much of a help though.
11-04-2002 | 07:01 PM
#70
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 128
From: Tx
Phil, Jason, WJH, Trey... thanks! 
Yeah, I'm still kicking..... been a long and very busy year, not to mention I've been without an ISP for quite some time. Not that it would have mattered much considering my schedule right now.
I'll be around though in a limited capacity. But hom much of my crap would you really wanna hear anyway?
Take care,
Chuck
Yeah, I'm still kicking..... been a long and very busy year, not to mention I've been without an ISP for quite some time. Not that it would have mattered much considering my schedule right now.
I'll be around though in a limited capacity. But hom much of my crap would you really wanna hear anyway?
Take care,
Chuck
11-05-2002 | 08:31 AM
#71
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 214
From: DFW
Originally posted by bunker
Just look at my sig, this is the so called reputable shop, don't worry the next person got worse numbers who baught them, & the shop said the heads were awesome once again, I'm not the only one, so don't diss a compnay just cuz they f'ked up a bit atleast their heads make power & don't cost an arm & a leg.
Just look at my sig, this is the so called reputable shop, don't worry the next person got worse numbers who baught them, & the shop said the heads were awesome once again, I'm not the only one, so don't diss a compnay just cuz they f'ked up a bit atleast their heads make power & don't cost an arm & a leg.
Last edited by 96vortechSS; 11-05-2002 at 03:18 PM.
11-05-2002 | 05:43 PM
#72
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
Originally posted by Mr. Horsepower
I'll be around though in a limited capacity. But hom much of my crap would you really wanna hear anyway?
Take care,
Chuck
I'll be around though in a limited capacity. But hom much of my crap would you really wanna hear anyway?
Take care,
Chuck
Good to see you back!
I have a little project I could sure use your help on man. Besides, you owe me a flavor (I just hope he remembers)!
Sent ya a PM wit da details. Thanks!
-Mindgame
11-06-2002 | 01:52 PM
#73
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 524
From: Fort Worth , TX
Originally posted by 96vortechSS
Your GTP heads might not make the power that some of their heads make on other peoples cars but at least they didn't leak water and the valve guides were still there. You understand the importance of these little problems don't you?
Your GTP heads might not make the power that some of their heads make on other peoples cars but at least they didn't leak water and the valve guides were still there. You understand the importance of these little problems don't you?
My times are in the sig not very happy with the performance, Don't know if its the heads or something else. But the car has no fuel, ignition, or major problems. So it leads me to believe its the heads
11-06-2002 | 02:36 PM
#74
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,431
From: Pacific North West
I tend to agree with Chuck. i am sure the man does good work when he is not over loaded. Look at the Groth. header issues a few years ago. In there case quality never went down they just flat could not deliver fast eoungh.
All I can tell you here is no matter how much people say this is a great product....I can not agree after seeing the product that was delivered to us.
Take it any way you want it we got delivered two hunks of aluminum crapp. One of which flowed water better then air....
All I can tell you here is no matter how much people say this is a great product....I can not agree after seeing the product that was delivered to us.
Take it any way you want it we got delivered two hunks of aluminum crapp. One of which flowed water better then air....
11-06-2002 | 05:56 PM
#75
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 541
From: Shreveport La.
Originally posted by blksunshine
You would think for $1500 we would get the power!
My times are in the sig not very happy with the performance, Don't know if its the heads or something else. But the car has no fuel, ignition, or major problems. So it leads me to believe its the heads
You would think for $1500 we would get the power!
My times are in the sig not very happy with the performance, Don't know if its the heads or something else. But the car has no fuel, ignition, or major problems. So it leads me to believe its the heads