Camaro350z28

most the time it feels like the car is running normal but i know its not to its potential. specially when it bogs out lots of the time. it starts just running like crap underload, bogging out, and sputtering not wanting to go anywhere with decent pull. its like its choking on itself.

the whole time i figured it was my o2's acting up, was getting o2 codes, o2's had been ran on open headers for atleast 6-8 months. and the o2's were also ran with brand new coated headers. so i replaced my o2's, bought extentions, and just did my spark plugs. same problem. not throwing any codes at all now though but still running the same. i have noticed 1 burnt wire, its on my to do list but im not quite sure its really the cause of this whole thing. im leaning towards opti possibly.

the guy i bought this car from just has not seemed up to capabilities. i have found lose bolts everywhere, electric fans just flapping, ground wire loose, tons of burnt wires i have fixed.

car is a 95, 383 bottom end, 1.6 rockers on stock cam and heads with longtube hookers. true dual exhaust and a madz28 tune. the reason i am leaning towards opti is this guy supposedly did just the cap and rotor for it, msd. have receipts but i really am not trusting the work anymore. also getting some ticking on startup, used to think it was exhaust leak but now im leaning towards rockers. gonna adjust all those myself here shortly as well. do you think if it ran this bad that it would throw a couple codes for me atleast if it was opti?

( i can run a datamaster log and send it to someone if they would like to look it over at all?)

i just dont wanna go buying an opti. the other stuff i dont mind because it is a new car to me and id rather know that its tuned up, fresh plugs/wires, o2's that sorta thing but opti is rather spendy. thanks guys

Injuneer

What were the EXACT O2 sensor codes you were getting?

At one point you indicate the car is running normal, but down on power, then you say its running bad. When does it run normal, and under what specific conditions does it start to "run like crap", bog, etc.? How often does this happen?

If you have the capability to scan it and run a data log, it would make a lot more sense to do that than to start throwing parts at it. Fix the burned wire, track down the tick and solve all the known problems first, as well,

Camaro350z28

its all random when it decides to start running bad. some days i can drive it for 15-30 minutes and it wont do it at all, and other days it will do it every 30 seconds.

hard to explain the bogging but its kinda stuttering on itself, i can give it more gas and itll start to clear up, sometimes it even does this hiccup like thing where its like totally down on power then all the sudden fixes itself and launches forward.

i was never really "throwing" parts at it. i just got the car, when i do i usually replace things, spark plugs, wires things of that nature just for myself to know whats in my own car. now the o2's were throwing code, let me dig it up, and not only that but i dont know what brand o2's they were, but they were also spliced on passenger side and they were just not looking well. the car had some hack issues so thats all.

i hate throwing parts without diagnosing but i was just replacing stuff i seen right.

ok the o2 code it was throwing was 44.

i have like a 6 foot amount of msd wire but nothing to make just 1 wire with go figure. he gave me just the wire with no ends or tool that comes with it, just checked that. gonna just get some OTVC wires, i want them anyway

Injuneer

The fact the O2 sensor is reading "lean" doesn't necessarily mean the O2 sensor is the problem. You have to look at what could cause it to run lean, including poor wiring, exhaust leaks, etc. You mentioned you were running open headers. That could cause DTC 44.

Camaro350z28

44 came on after i had full exhaust ran. so the open headers i was just saying because the o2's were ran like that for 6 months. now it has full exhaust, codes cleared and the o2 code came up.

i realize 44 could be from many different things and not just the o2's. i replaced o2's because of the code, the ceramic coated headers being ran on them through break in, it being open headers.. and the fact they were an after market o2 with some obvious splices in the wiring.

i will get the datalog hopefully tonight, i will log it and drive until it bogs a couple times and set it up to be seen.

bubba4

Do yourself a favor and follow Injuneer's advice, One burnt wire and a exhaust leak will make it run like "crap". Fix your known problems. LF

Camaro350z28

ok having issues with the datamaster. i had the log file but was tryin to make it to csv but i ruined it haha. so im trying to figure that out so i can put it up for download.

what i did notice.. soon as my car starts running like crap the black line, spark advance, starts gapping, ______ __ __ _____________ stuff like that. (bigger gaps then what the line i just put shows.) not sure what it means but it would gap huge at some points and was just struggling to move. getting some new wires on soon

Camaro350z28

anyone know what problem could be with gapping in the spark advance line?

Guest47904

Doubt you're gona listen to anyone at this point but here goes. Not being able to tell if you still have bad parts or not. Let me be the third person to tell you to fix the known problems first. Including the exhaust.

Don't understand what you are calling the spark advance line???????

The only line that controls when the ignition fires is the IC line white wire going to the ICM. And it is not a "flat line" as far as voltage goes any way?

Your problem sounds like a closed loop control problem. So unplug an O2 to force it into open loop and see how it runs.

Camaro350z28

doubt im gonna listen to anyone? dont know why you would say that.. i am asking a question to listen. I dont have endless amounts of money. I dont have the money for my 1 burnt wire yet. my exhaust is fine there is nothing to fix.

the spark advance line i am talking about is on datamaster. the is a black line a red line etc at the bottom when car is running. the only thing i was asking (yes i know i need to fix my known problems) was what this line represents or what could be causing it. is it a miss, can my 1 burnt wire be causing that? i am tryin to go over everything til i have the money to fix the stuff.

just looking to get ideas and was trying to understand datamaster. im not an idiot. and im not just not listening to everyone because there just has to be something other wrong that just my problems. i am aware that the wires could be my issue. my last post was only trying to understand datamaster and what that line represents. when it gaps all i was asking is that from missing spark? or? thats all. not trying to be an ******* and seem like i am ignoring everyone. i get it. i am doing my best with what i have.

Camaro350z28

open loop is till running good and soon as it hits closed loop its just total crap. i have brand new deplhi o2's, i fixed my wires, the ticking. everything. and its still having the same issue. it was throwing codes, mentioned above, changed o2's had a few deleted that were smog related and now i throw no codes. (well except the fan code telling me its bad cause its on a manual switch.)

ok upon all that i found one more problem.. i dont know if this effects anything, but the temp gauge.. the needle will rise all the way to hot and stick.. then come back down fast... wait a second, then do it again.. and it will do that for 2-8 times sometimes.. then it will finally read the right temp. is that the water pump sensor or the block? i was assuming block?

Guest47904

If it's a closed loop problem, then the only way you are going to find and fix it is to monitor O2 and fuel trims in real time.

Camaro350z28

ok i am running through a datamaster log right now, and soon as it goes to closed loop the sterm counts drop. soon as it hits closed loop it goes from its 128 base all the way down to as low as 87 within 7 seconds, lterm drops some goes as low as 114..

it has 2 sides left and right.. i assume thats each o2 reading? if so the left side does go down to, down to 99 in sterm and 123 in lterm. then when it keeps running the right side actually hits 131 and goes lean for a split second then it jumps back into open loop.

i can email the datamaster file if someone can look at it for me? im trying to learn this stuff to help myself out in the end.

Camaro350z28

here is the datamaster file

http://free-tjd1981.medialightbox.co...px?id=8iv396vf

Injuneer

In open loop the short terms are locked at 128 and can't change. They only start to move when the PCM reaches "closed loop enabled".

Yes, there is a left bank (driver's side - #1/3/5/7) and a right bank (passenger side - #2/4/6/8). Each bank is controlled independantly. In any given frame, there is no realationship at all between the left and right bank short and long term values.

Read the A/F section of this:

http://www.injuneer.com/ScanMast.html