Removing/gutting cats ticks me off!
05-17-2003, 11:41 AM
#46
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Originally posted by nateh
I have been looking for a good solution to the performance issue with cats. I honestly believe right now that the Random Tech cat assembly is probably the best. The problem on our cars is packaging. I work with an expert in catalyst design. In talking about my application, he told me it would be possible to design a low restriction catalyst that would meet 2004 SULEV requirements for my car if we could package it. I was ecstatic. It turns out that we need more brick face surface area to even meet OBDII requirements than we can package without adding restriction. In looking at the Random Tech pipe, it's the best compromise out there. It isn't quite as good on pollutants as the OEM cats, but they meet federal requirements for replacements, and they are a lot less restrictive. The big problem is the price. The assembly is way too expensive for many people to afford, especially the stainless piece.
I would be interested in knowing the cell density of the Random Tech catalyst substrates. Anyone know that? I'm assuming about 300, given the low restriction.
I have been looking for a good solution to the performance issue with cats. I honestly believe right now that the Random Tech cat assembly is probably the best. The problem on our cars is packaging. I work with an expert in catalyst design. In talking about my application, he told me it would be possible to design a low restriction catalyst that would meet 2004 SULEV requirements for my car if we could package it. I was ecstatic. It turns out that we need more brick face surface area to even meet OBDII requirements than we can package without adding restriction. In looking at the Random Tech pipe, it's the best compromise out there. It isn't quite as good on pollutants as the OEM cats, but they meet federal requirements for replacements, and they are a lot less restrictive. The big problem is the price. The assembly is way too expensive for many people to afford, especially the stainless piece.
I would be interested in knowing the cell density of the Random Tech catalyst substrates. Anyone know that? I'm assuming about 300, given the low restriction.
As far as the sociology of this thread goes, I'd be happy if people who go with gutted cats were honest (as some have been) and said something like "yes, I know it pollutes more but I just can't afford the high flow cats at this time" or something like that. Much more intellectually honest than the ratinalizations or the attacks on those with a different point of view.
Rich Krause
05-17-2003, 07:34 PM
#47
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: 6500 MSL
Posts: 184
I'm definitely no hippie and I don't hug trees but I like to look at them, especially ones that are not all brown from acid rain.
Like I said in a previous post, I've little problem with people who "can't fit" the cats on with LT headers, or who race on the strip on a regular basis, taking off the cats. And cutouts and most definitely alright if you leave em corked most of the time. My main problem is with people who buy a car with no mods and the 1st thing they think of is ripping the cats off, as if it is some sort of automatic macho/"mine is too small" thing. A notion some of the past few posts have supported, not naming anyone. And if you want to call *me* a hippie, well, Lingelfelter must be the biggest flower child of all, read my first post! But I bet one of his garage-built beater cars WITH cats could whip the snot out of most people on this board in a race, myself included.
I think it IS true that the replacement high flo cats are too expensive. And we should go after the companies to get them to change their ways (and their high prices on replacement cats). There is a reason, however, that we have these things, and if EFI engines are so clean to begin with if they are running right, why do we have cats at all?
It's silly to call someone a "hippie" nowadays when we can both have our musclecars and have good clean air too, THANKS to tighter emmissions control but PARALLEL and COMPLEMENTARY engineering. Look at where horsepower rating are on EC cars nowadays! Back up to where they were in the 60's! BUT the gov't should be subsidizing itself in this department, even stock cats cost an arm, a leg, and your mother's left eye. It's not about just being a hippie or a purist or whatever, but about being responsible with what you have. If I wanted a 1 cylinder engine that got 200 mpg I'd get one (and I laud those people that do). But just because I have a 5.7L 8 cylinder that gets 20mpg I'm not going to make it worse and dismantle its emmission controls.
One constant refrain on this thread has been "to each his own." This rugged individualism works to a point. The pursuit of happiness is our right. But, we are not to infringe upon the rights of others, either, by stinking up the air everyone breathes.
I think that was written somewhere important.
Like I said in a previous post, I've little problem with people who "can't fit" the cats on with LT headers, or who race on the strip on a regular basis, taking off the cats. And cutouts and most definitely alright if you leave em corked most of the time. My main problem is with people who buy a car with no mods and the 1st thing they think of is ripping the cats off, as if it is some sort of automatic macho/"mine is too small" thing. A notion some of the past few posts have supported, not naming anyone. And if you want to call *me* a hippie, well, Lingelfelter must be the biggest flower child of all, read my first post! But I bet one of his garage-built beater cars WITH cats could whip the snot out of most people on this board in a race, myself included.
I think it IS true that the replacement high flo cats are too expensive. And we should go after the companies to get them to change their ways (and their high prices on replacement cats). There is a reason, however, that we have these things, and if EFI engines are so clean to begin with if they are running right, why do we have cats at all?
It's silly to call someone a "hippie" nowadays when we can both have our musclecars and have good clean air too, THANKS to tighter emmissions control but PARALLEL and COMPLEMENTARY engineering. Look at where horsepower rating are on EC cars nowadays! Back up to where they were in the 60's! BUT the gov't should be subsidizing itself in this department, even stock cats cost an arm, a leg, and your mother's left eye. It's not about just being a hippie or a purist or whatever, but about being responsible with what you have. If I wanted a 1 cylinder engine that got 200 mpg I'd get one (and I laud those people that do). But just because I have a 5.7L 8 cylinder that gets 20mpg I'm not going to make it worse and dismantle its emmission controls.
One constant refrain on this thread has been "to each his own." This rugged individualism works to a point. The pursuit of happiness is our right. But, we are not to infringe upon the rights of others, either, by stinking up the air everyone breathes.
I think that was written somewhere important.
Last edited by Kuma; 05-17-2003 at 07:37 PM.
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