twcblackhand6970

Went outside and was monitoring using pcmcomm (unregistered) and saw that my long term BLM were 108 on the right, and the short term would:
-Start at 128
-Count down to 103
-Car would go into open loop cause of it
-BLM would reset to 128 and repeat.
(this is all at idle)

I must be running super rich I guess. Someone suggested maybe a leaky injector but are there any other suggestions besides that? The left side long term BLM is at about 117, and the short term sits at about 124. The fuel cell my car is usually in at idle is 16, sometimes 17.

Injuneer

If you put your data log on an FTP site, and post the link, there are people who can review it and offer suggestions.

You should always be in Cell 16 at idle. If your BLM's are stabilized, the short terms should be averaging 128 when averaged over several seconds of data. In any case, the short terms should be moving rapidly (~9 times per second) cycling above and below 128 when in closed loop.

What does the right side O2 sensor read when all this is going on at idle?

twcblackhand6970

that whole list was the right side o2 readings. It'll cycle over and over.
Starting at 128 as it hits closed loop then dropping to 103, then going into open loop for about 2 seconds, then going back into closed loop and repeating.
Here's a run I did awhile back, but not from yesterday. I ran out of trial runs on TTS
http://www.esnips.com/doc/552d5707-5...aftero2replace

Injuneer

I understand that you were describing what ws happening on the right side. That's why I asked what the right side O2 sensor readings were when the right side BLM/short term was doing what you described. My guess would be that the right side O2 sensor is putting out a signal close to 1000mV. That might possibly indicate a short or at least a voltage leak between the 12V heater power circuit and the 0-1V thimble output voltage circuit. But only you can tell me what its actually doing.

I'll look at your file later. This PC does not have DM on it, and since you posted the .uni file rather than converting it to a .csv file, I can't look at it using Excel. I'll have to download it when I get to the office.

twcblackhand6970

Sorry, I didn't know what format people liked the file. I'll convert later and repost if you need me to.

Injuneer

I looked at the file. While the right side BLM is at 108 in Cell 16, it does not show any of the other things you described. The short terms are correctly moving on both sides of 128, and over the complete data log the right side short term averages 127.7. The range of movement is identical above and below 128. The higher cells all show the right side BLM lower than the left, but they do not exhibit the extremes of the idle cell. You have to look for something that would affect only one side of the engine.

Do you have extensions on the O2 sensor harness? Have you tried switching the left and right O2 sensors to see if the problem follows the sensor. You file name indicates you just replaced one or both O2 sensors. Was the same problem present before you installed the new sensor(s)? Is that why you installed the new sensor(s)? What brand O2 sensors are you using?

If you've been chasing this problem for a while, and you have been trying things and replacing parts, it would probably be a good idea to include the details of what you have tried and what you have replaced, so people know the whole story.

twcblackhand6970

the right o2 was only replaced (with a Bosch) because the harness melted because of the headers and forced my car to be only in open loop. that file was done right after I installed it. that file doesn't show what I was talking about, I couldn't record what I say because I ran out of TTS runs so I had to use pcmcomm (free). I was just hoping that file could show something that was causing my right side to be so rich (108 vs 117 left?)

Injuneer

The log just tells you the right side engine fuel is badly screwed up. It can't tell you what's causing the problem. Did you try switching the two O2 sensors side to side to see if the problem follows the sensor, or stays on the right side. That would rule out the O2 sensor. Many people here have had problems with the Bosch sensors, and it is gnerally recommended that you stick with the Delco (Delphi) OEM part.

If you think it may be a leaking injector, pop the rails and pressure the fuel system, looking for drips. Or swap the injectors side to side and see if the problem follows a specific injector.

twcblackhand6970

How hard is it to swap the injectors? I don't know how.

Injuneer

Loosen clip that holds the hard lines to the rear corner/drivers side of the intake manifold. Remove vacuum line from fuel pressure regulator. Pop the wire harness out of the fuel rail and push it behind the manifold. Remove 4 bolts. Lift fuel rails. Injectors will come up with it. Before you pull the rails up, blow out the areas around the base of the injectors with compressed air. When the injectors come out, make sure each one has an O-ring on the bototm. If it doesn't use a small hook to pull the O-ring out of the manifold.

Turn the key to "on" but don't try to start the engine. Look for drips. If there are no drips, slide the retainer clips off the injectors and pull each one out of the fuel rail (check for an O-ring on the top of each injector) and swap it with the injector on the opposite bank of the engine.

Lubricate the injector O-rings with a small amount of light oil before you seat them in the rail or the manifold.

twcblackhand6970

I'm guessing you blow compressed air around before you take them out to make sure there's nothing that'll fall into the intake?

twcblackhand6970

So this is a pretty easy thing to do on these cars huh?

Injuneer

Yes.... and yes.

twcblackhand6970

What if there is not fuel dripping when I turn the key to ON? What else could cause it to run rich?

Injuneer

Not much affects one side of the engine, with regard to making it run rich, forcing the BLM's to drop. The injectors may still be flowing more fuel than they are supposed to on that side of the engine. If they close slowly, the actual pulse width will be greater than the PCM's calculated pulse width.

If I recall correctly, you also had codes for AIR, EGR and EVAP?