Rocker stud problem. Not sure what to do.
03-16-2003, 12:54 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
Rocker stud problem. Not sure what to do.
I put my new 7/16" rocker studs in the other day and I realized that I forgot to put the darn guideplates in before. So I took them out today. Now I am having a few problems with reinstalling them w/ the guideplates.
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
The other problem I'm having is with the threads on the 7/16" studs. When I installed them, they went in very easily (had arp thread sealer on them too) and I torqued them to the 50lb ft spec. Now they won't even start to thread again so I looked at the thread and it is very chewed up (on every stud too). The first two or so threads (see bottom picture) show how it got chewed up. Should I just get new rocker studs and get them in right this time so I don't have to take them out again? I'm also not sure if it's not the thread inserts in the heads that could be chewing up the threads but something isn't right.
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
The other problem I'm having is with the threads on the 7/16" studs. When I installed them, they went in very easily (had arp thread sealer on them too) and I torqued them to the 50lb ft spec. Now they won't even start to thread again so I looked at the thread and it is very chewed up (on every stud too). The first two or so threads (see bottom picture) show how it got chewed up. Should I just get new rocker studs and get them in right this time so I don't have to take them out again? I'm also not sure if it's not the thread inserts in the heads that could be chewing up the threads but something isn't right.
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
03-16-2003, 01:13 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: Rocker stud problem. Not sure what to do.
Originally posted by ltlhomer
I put my new 7/16" rocker studs in the other day and I realized that I forgot to put the darn guideplates in before. So I took them out today. Now I am having a few problems with reinstalling them w/ the guideplates.
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
I put my new 7/16" rocker studs in the other day and I realized that I forgot to put the darn guideplates in before. So I took them out today. Now I am having a few problems with reinstalling them w/ the guideplates.
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
I'm especially missing the "spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head" part. What's suppose to be "spreading"
If you can clarify that a bit it'd help.
The other problem I'm having is with the threads on the 7/16" studs. When I installed them, they went in very easily (had arp thread sealer on them too) and I torqued them to the 50lb ft spec. Now they won't even start to thread again so I looked at the thread and it is very chewed up (on every stud too). The first two or so threads (see bottom picture) show how it got chewed up. Should I just get new rocker studs and get them in right this time so I don't have to take them out again? I'm also not sure if it's not the thread inserts in the heads that could be chewing up the threads but something isn't right.
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
You could get a die and chase the threads to straighten them out. They look usable so that'd be the cheaper option vs buying a new set.
-Mindgame
03-16-2003, 01:35 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
I'm not following you on this. You don't want the guideplate to contact ("seat against") the threads. A little clearance there is good.
I'm especially missing the "spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head" part. What's suppose to be "spreading"
If you can clarify that a bit it'd help.
I didn't mean seat against the threads. Let me try to explain this the best I can. You have the rocker stud bolt that goes into the head. Well the upper most part of the part that goes into the head looks like it isn't threaded. I would think the guideplate should go over this part and be touching the top of the bolt.
See this picture for better clarification.
Again, copy and paste link.
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...udthreads2.jpg
Yep, that is peculiar. Looks like it ran out of threads and then starting going into a smaller hole or something (at least on the last few threads there). Is there any aluminum built up in the threads..... any galling??
You could get a die and chase the threads to straighten them out. They look usable so that'd be the cheaper option vs buying a new set.
We tried putting a die on the rocker stud so see if we could straighten them out and it wouldn't go on the threads at all. Maybe we are using the wrong one but I think 7/16" -14 is right. If anyone knows the exact ones, that would be great. We didn't want to tap the head holes because we weren't sure if that would somehow mess up the threads or something. Hell, we're not even sure if the heads don't have some kind of insert in them because I doubt aluminum could chew up a bolt's thread like that. I will take some more pictures and post back.
I'm especially missing the "spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head" part. What's suppose to be "spreading"
If you can clarify that a bit it'd help.
I didn't mean seat against the threads. Let me try to explain this the best I can. You have the rocker stud bolt that goes into the head. Well the upper most part of the part that goes into the head looks like it isn't threaded. I would think the guideplate should go over this part and be touching the top of the bolt.
See this picture for better clarification.
Again, copy and paste link.
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...udthreads2.jpg
Yep, that is peculiar. Looks like it ran out of threads and then starting going into a smaller hole or something (at least on the last few threads there). Is there any aluminum built up in the threads..... any galling??
You could get a die and chase the threads to straighten them out. They look usable so that'd be the cheaper option vs buying a new set.
We tried putting a die on the rocker stud so see if we could straighten them out and it wouldn't go on the threads at all. Maybe we are using the wrong one but I think 7/16" -14 is right. If anyone knows the exact ones, that would be great. We didn't want to tap the head holes because we weren't sure if that would somehow mess up the threads or something. Hell, we're not even sure if the heads don't have some kind of insert in them because I doubt aluminum could chew up a bolt's thread like that. I will take some more pictures and post back.
03-16-2003, 01:45 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
Here's a few pics of the holes on the heads for the rocker studs...
(copy and paste link)
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...rstudhole1.jpg
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...rstudhole2.jpg
Thanks again...
(copy and paste link)
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...rstudhole1.jpg
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...rstudhole2.jpg
Thanks again...
03-16-2003, 02:20 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Sometimes I wonder about myself... what a brain-toot on my part. Sorry Homer... YES, they are suppose to seat on the non-threaded part right under the hex. What brand of guideplates you using?
Ok, the heli-coils are fubar-ed. Look st the top ring of the insert, it's "bent-up". Not good and I can see why the bolt won't start into the hole. I'd pull the inserts and replace them with new ones. Chamfer the tops of the bolt holes while you're at it. You'll never get the bolt started with the heli-coil messed up like that. Don't really know how that could have happened... looks like someone literally tried to pull them out with a pair of pliers.
-Mindgame
Ok, the heli-coils are fubar-ed. Look st the top ring of the insert, it's "bent-up". Not good and I can see why the bolt won't start into the hole. I'd pull the inserts and replace them with new ones. Chamfer the tops of the bolt holes while you're at it. You'll never get the bolt started with the heli-coil messed up like that. Don't really know how that could have happened... looks like someone literally tried to pull them out with a pair of pliers.
-Mindgame
03-16-2003, 03:32 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
Sometimes I wonder about myself... what a brain-toot on my part. Sorry Homer... YES, they are suppose to seat on the non-threaded part right under the hex. What brand of guideplates you using?
Ok, the heli-coils are fubar-ed. Look st the top ring of the insert, it's "bent-up". Not good and I can see why the bolt won't start into the hole. I'd pull the inserts and replace them with new ones. Chamfer the tops of the bolt holes while you're at it. You'll never get the bolt started with the heli-coil messed up like that. Don't really know how that could have happened... looks like someone literally tried to pull them out with a pair of pliers.
-Mindgame
So if I took them to the place that did the spring swap, would they be able to take care of all that stuff. The guy is pretty cool up there and I'm sure he would do it for a good price.
I got the guideplates through cmotorsports so whatever they sell. I'll give them a call Monday and see what they think I should do. All these little things start to **** me off beyond belief! But thanks for the help man I really appreciate it.
Ok, the heli-coils are fubar-ed. Look st the top ring of the insert, it's "bent-up". Not good and I can see why the bolt won't start into the hole. I'd pull the inserts and replace them with new ones. Chamfer the tops of the bolt holes while you're at it. You'll never get the bolt started with the heli-coil messed up like that. Don't really know how that could have happened... looks like someone literally tried to pull them out with a pair of pliers.
-Mindgame
So if I took them to the place that did the spring swap, would they be able to take care of all that stuff. The guy is pretty cool up there and I'm sure he would do it for a good price.
I got the guideplates through cmotorsports so whatever they sell. I'll give them a call Monday and see what they think I should do. All these little things start to **** me off beyond belief! But thanks for the help man I really appreciate it.
03-16-2003, 03:58 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,714
You should be able to clean the threads up on the studs with a die. The studs should fit down flush onto the guideplates. I just put on a set of the CM ones with the 7/16" studs. I started to put the studs in, too, forgetting the guideplate and did a similar thing to the stud. A die fixed it up, but the hole was not damaged.
03-16-2003, 04:19 PM
#8
Moderator
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cinnaminson, NJ
Posts: 2,713
You should be able to clean the studs up with a die. I wouldnt bother getting new ones, they will still work once you clean up the threads. As for the helicoils in the heads... yeah they are Fubar. You need to get new ones. They are there to "take the abuse". Insted of messing up the head itself, you mess up the insert. Any machine shop should be able to replace them for you. Dont bother tryin to get the studs in untill you get them fixed.
As for the guide plates... I follow what your saying but they should fit assuming they are the right ones. Try fixing the threads first. then reinstall them and see if they fit then. Its posible the threads in the head (because they are Fubar) are not allowing the stud to go all the way in and making it appear as if it was a fitment problem. If not then call up your supplier and ask them about it.
As for the guide plates... I follow what your saying but they should fit assuming they are the right ones. Try fixing the threads first. then reinstall them and see if they fit then. Its posible the threads in the head (because they are Fubar) are not allowing the stud to go all the way in and making it appear as if it was a fitment problem. If not then call up your supplier and ask them about it.
03-16-2003, 04:43 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
Thanks guys...I'll get the inserts done probably Tuesday.
About the guideplates...
I tried sliding the glideplate onto a stud with it out of the head and it wouldn't sit flush. Someone local mentioned they needed to clean up the inside of their guideplates because they were a tad too small to sit flush. I'll go clean up the rocker stud threads with the die and hopefully I'll have all this taken care of within the next few days. Thanks for the help...
About the guideplates...
I tried sliding the glideplate onto a stud with it out of the head and it wouldn't sit flush. Someone local mentioned they needed to clean up the inside of their guideplates because they were a tad too small to sit flush. I'll go clean up the rocker stud threads with the die and hopefully I'll have all this taken care of within the next few days. Thanks for the help...
03-16-2003, 05:00 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Yeah, you could have got a set made late in the die-run or something. It happens with any mass produced product.
If you have someone to look at them then that's always great. BTW, 7/16-14 is the correct thread size so you're ok there.
Best of luck!
-Mindgame
If you have someone to look at them then that's always great. BTW, 7/16-14 is the correct thread size so you're ok there.
Best of luck!
-Mindgame
03-16-2003, 05:04 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
Yeah, you could have got a set made late in the die-run or something. It happens with any mass produced product.
If you have someone to look at them then that's always great. BTW, 7/16-14 is the correct thread size so you're ok there.
Best of luck!
-Mindgame
Thanks man. Let's hope all goes well :-).
If you have someone to look at them then that's always great. BTW, 7/16-14 is the correct thread size so you're ok there.
Best of luck!
-Mindgame
Thanks man. Let's hope all goes well :-).
03-18-2003, 04:31 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,373
I was quoted $100 from the machine shop to change out all the helicoils including parts and labor (if they are helicoiled now which I believe they are). If they aren't currently helicoiled, then it will run $160 since he said he'd have to drill it out first and then put the helicoils in. Does this sound like a fair price? I'm going to keep calling around and see what's up. Thanks for the help, Sean
03-18-2003, 06:33 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: spokane, wa.
Posts: 125
just find a machine shop supply house they sell the inserts and install tool. i'm a machinist and buy them all the time. heli coil install isn't cheap price sounds fair.
as far as the guide plates i bought comp same problem and had to cut them in half elongagate the stud holes spread them appox 1/16 of an inch build a fixture reweld and send them out to be rehardened. i spread them becuase they didn't line the rockers up right. by the way those are hardened get a burr to grind them, or heat them first. than you'll need to harden them again.
my suggestion is to order some isky adjustables far cheaper in the long run ever if you have access to a machine shop.
hope this helps good luck,
matt
as far as the guide plates i bought comp same problem and had to cut them in half elongagate the stud holes spread them appox 1/16 of an inch build a fixture reweld and send them out to be rehardened. i spread them becuase they didn't line the rockers up right. by the way those are hardened get a burr to grind them, or heat them first. than you'll need to harden them again.
my suggestion is to order some isky adjustables far cheaper in the long run ever if you have access to a machine shop.
hope this helps good luck,
matt
04-04-2003, 01:55 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Murphy, TX 75094
Posts: 12
Re: Rocker stud problem. Not sure what to do.
Originally posted by ltlhomer
I put my new 7/16" rocker studs in the other day and I realized that I forgot to put the darn guideplates in before. So I took them out today. Now I am having a few problems with reinstalling them w/ the guideplates.
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
The other problem I'm having is with the threads on the 7/16" studs. When I installed them, they went in very easily (had arp thread sealer on them too) and I torqued them to the 50lb ft spec. Now they won't even start to thread again so I looked at the thread and it is very chewed up (on every stud too). The first two or so threads (see bottom picture) show how it got chewed up. Should I just get new rocker studs and get them in right this time so I don't have to take them out again? I'm also not sure if it's not the thread inserts in the heads that could be chewing up the threads but something isn't right.
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
I put my new 7/16" rocker studs in the other day and I realized that I forgot to put the darn guideplates in before. So I took them out today. Now I am having a few problems with reinstalling them w/ the guideplates.
First off, the guideplate won't seat all the way against the rocker stud bolt part. It gets very close, but there is still a good 1/16" gap or so. I'm not sure if I need to drill out the guideplate a little or if they spread by themselves when you bolt down the stud into the head.
The other problem I'm having is with the threads on the 7/16" studs. When I installed them, they went in very easily (had arp thread sealer on them too) and I torqued them to the 50lb ft spec. Now they won't even start to thread again so I looked at the thread and it is very chewed up (on every stud too). The first two or so threads (see bottom picture) show how it got chewed up. Should I just get new rocker studs and get them in right this time so I don't have to take them out again? I'm also not sure if it's not the thread inserts in the heads that could be chewing up the threads but something isn't right.
Here's a pictures(copy and paste link):
http://www.fbody.com/members/ltlhome...tudthreads.jpg
The threads look even worse in person. I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance guys...
1. Replace the damaged helicoils. They can be removed by prying the top coil into the middle of the hole, then pull them out with needleose pliers (they'll kind of 'unwind' out of the hole). When installing helicoils, they should always be installed so they are 1 thread below the hole surface.
2. On a grinder, file, or belt sander, put a new 45 deg chamfer on the end of the bolts to get rid of the damaged threads.
3. With calipers, measure the diameter of the stud shoulder, then drill the holes in the guide plates about .002 or so larger than the shoulder diameter.
Then you'll be good to go.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post