Stock Bottom End Dyno#s For LT1 N/A 93 Octane and on E85
04-10-2008, 07:34 PM
#61
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Location: IL
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What would you guys classify as "high compression"?? Anything from 12:1 and up? Or 11:1 and up? Im in the 11:5:1, ballpark for CR on my 383....So, I was just wondering. E85 goes for something like $2.49/gl here, we have a pump here in town...about a mile away, lol. Those stations are starting to get popular.
Interesting results, and topic.
Interesting results, and topic.
04-10-2008, 08:01 PM
#62
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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E85 has 65% the energy density of gas, that is the main downside.
Generally gas mileage goes down to because of the lower energy density.
Yes, you can run higher compression; the resistance to ignition compression is impressive and that's why drag racers use methanol. (although it is less efficient the ethanol...)
What would you guys classify as "high compression"?? Anything from 12:1 and up? Or 11:1 and up? Im in the 11:5:1, ballpark for CR on my 383....So, I was just wondering. E85 goes for something like $2.49/gl here, we have a pump here in town...about a mile away, lol. Those stations are starting to get popular.
Interesting results, and topic.
Interesting results, and topic.
Sorry to hijack
Great numbers once again, I'm thoroughly impressed
04-10-2008, 08:26 PM
#63
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
Back on topic.
I looked at the speed shops webpage.
Anyone ever dyno'd on a http://www.land-and-sea.com/ dyno?? I never heard of them before and we already know that a Dynojet and a Mustang dyno do not read the same. Just something I think needs to be considered. Even so it seems like the car is makeing good power
I looked at the speed shops webpage.
Anyone ever dyno'd on a http://www.land-and-sea.com/ dyno?? I never heard of them before and we already know that a Dynojet and a Mustang dyno do not read the same. Just something I think needs to be considered. Even so it seems like the car is makeing good power
04-10-2008, 11:26 PM
#64
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 50
back to E85 subject...
i would like to add... there is a company that sells a E-85 conversion kit (goes between wiring harness and injectors... it just increases duty cycle to make mixture richer)
i am running a Berry grant pump and filter that are e100 compatable...(eliminated/bypassed intake pump, and welded a rear sump to take)
and teflon o-rings on my SVO injectors as well..
their kit recommended a fuel system treatment and oil treatments to protect the system against E85 - i used these treatments - and use them every 12 months, though the company states you only need to do it once...
the company that sells the kit is:
http://www.flextek.com/
the the additives are on this site now:
http://www.flextek.com/shop.htm#engine_preparation_kit (at the bottom)
This technology helps reduce & eliminate problems commonly associated with E85 fuel, such as cold starting, corrosion, and fuel economy.
You must drive on 2 tanks full of gasoline before switching from gasoline to E85!
1. Flex Fuel Engine Protection
We have custom blended this quart of Engine Protection product to clean and protect in one application. This unique proven formula has been providing full-time protection and improved performance since 1975. This one-time use product protects and extends the life of your engine.
2. Fuel Conditioner
The Fuel Conditioner product will clean the fuel injection system in preparation for your E85 fuel. This product provides maximum protection by thoroughly cleaning the entire fuel delivery system and lubricating all metal components. It does not harm the catalytic converters or the O2 sensors.
i would like to add... there is a company that sells a E-85 conversion kit (goes between wiring harness and injectors... it just increases duty cycle to make mixture richer)
i am running a Berry grant pump and filter that are e100 compatable...(eliminated/bypassed intake pump, and welded a rear sump to take)
and teflon o-rings on my SVO injectors as well..
their kit recommended a fuel system treatment and oil treatments to protect the system against E85 - i used these treatments - and use them every 12 months, though the company states you only need to do it once...
the company that sells the kit is:
http://www.flextek.com/
the the additives are on this site now:
http://www.flextek.com/shop.htm#engine_preparation_kit (at the bottom)
This technology helps reduce & eliminate problems commonly associated with E85 fuel, such as cold starting, corrosion, and fuel economy.
You must drive on 2 tanks full of gasoline before switching from gasoline to E85!
1. Flex Fuel Engine Protection
We have custom blended this quart of Engine Protection product to clean and protect in one application. This unique proven formula has been providing full-time protection and improved performance since 1975. This one-time use product protects and extends the life of your engine.
2. Fuel Conditioner
The Fuel Conditioner product will clean the fuel injection system in preparation for your E85 fuel. This product provides maximum protection by thoroughly cleaning the entire fuel delivery system and lubricating all metal components. It does not harm the catalytic converters or the O2 sensors.
Last edited by chads97z; 04-10-2008 at 11:30 PM.
04-11-2008, 02:05 AM
#65
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
This is why there is a power gain with E85 and no other changes except mixture;
Advantages of Ethanol Enriched Racing Fuels
HORSEPOWER: Because Ethanol contains oxygen, it has a very low power stoichiometric when compared to gasoline fuels (6.5 compared to 12.5). Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline, more than offsetting the lower energy per unit volume. The net energy released per cycle is higher and this results in more horsepower.
For example, if gasoline is run at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU's of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU's. By comparison, methanol releases slightly more, about 27,650 BTU's. The more ethanol there is in gasoline, the more powerful it is as a motor fuel. Typically, you can expect at least 5% more horsepower at the rear wheels of a vehicle running on E-85 than one burning gasoline only.
HORSEPOWER: Because Ethanol contains oxygen, it has a very low power stoichiometric when compared to gasoline fuels (6.5 compared to 12.5). Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline, more than offsetting the lower energy per unit volume. The net energy released per cycle is higher and this results in more horsepower.
For example, if gasoline is run at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU's of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU's. By comparison, methanol releases slightly more, about 27,650 BTU's. The more ethanol there is in gasoline, the more powerful it is as a motor fuel. Typically, you can expect at least 5% more horsepower at the rear wheels of a vehicle running on E-85 than one burning gasoline only.
04-11-2008, 06:17 AM
#66
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
Back on topic.
I looked at the speed shops webpage.
Anyone ever dyno'd on a http://www.land-and-sea.com/ dyno?? I never heard of them before and we already know that a Dynojet and a Mustang dyno do not read the same. Just something I think needs to be considered. Even so it seems like the car is makeing good power
I looked at the speed shops webpage.
Anyone ever dyno'd on a http://www.land-and-sea.com/ dyno?? I never heard of them before and we already know that a Dynojet and a Mustang dyno do not read the same. Just something I think needs to be considered. Even so it seems like the car is makeing good power
Ex: My car with the auto and 10bolt before ron tuned it made 385 rwhp on a dynojet. Ion Solton tuned the car. I put a 6-speed in the car 12bolt and eric bradby did porting on my intake. My first pull on rons dyno with Ion Soltons tune was 384rwhp and that bwas the day we got the car up to 416rwhp.. I feel the dynos are really close.
Ex#2: Last Saturday before my car was dynoed there was 00 trans am with heads and cam that had also been on a dynojet before coming to rons shop. His car on the dynojet made 417rwhp in Fortwayne shop with a leaking intake.. Rons Dyno first pull was 423rwhp and the intake leak was fixed.
Hope this helps
Chris
Last edited by LPE Z convt; 04-11-2008 at 06:22 AM.
04-11-2008, 07:52 AM
#67
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Robinson Township, PA
Posts: 292
no where did i way my engine had a stock bottom end
and 91 octane gas w/ a max advance of 8deg dont ping when i ran it
(stock tune allowed for a max advance of 46deg with 10.8:1 compression) - this is a LT4 not a LT1
engine bore: 4.030
engine stroke: 3.75 = 783.85cc x 8= 6270.8cc total = 382.7 ci
52.0cc chambers (each chamber cc'ed when heads machines - lowest is 52.0 highest = 52.4)
head gasket thinkness = .035
head gasket bore = 4.060
head gasket volume = 7.43cc
-5 domed pistons - unless i did the math wrong - im pretty close on the compression ratio
havent run 91 ontane in abt 1 year now... always e85
and 91 octane gas w/ a max advance of 8deg dont ping when i ran it
(stock tune allowed for a max advance of 46deg with 10.8:1 compression) - this is a LT4 not a LT1
engine bore: 4.030
engine stroke: 3.75 = 783.85cc x 8= 6270.8cc total = 382.7 ci
52.0cc chambers (each chamber cc'ed when heads machines - lowest is 52.0 highest = 52.4)
head gasket thinkness = .035
head gasket bore = 4.060
head gasket volume = 7.43cc
-5 domed pistons - unless i did the math wrong - im pretty close on the compression ratio
havent run 91 ontane in abt 1 year now... always e85
Sorry, I mixed up the posts, two different engines.....BTW, with the numbers you listed a zero-deck block would result in 13.17CR, 12.82CR would be achieved with TDC 0.009" in the hole.
I was interested because I'm building a 383, but with pump-gas daily driver CR target of 10.8 to 11 (depending on final head cc).
04-11-2008, 08:58 PM
#69
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Location: Lafayette IN.
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04-11-2008, 09:14 PM
#70
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Robinson Township, PA
Posts: 292
All the rubber in your fuel system will get dried out by the alcohol.
E85 has 65% the energy density of gas, that is the main downside.
Generally gas mileage goes down to because of the lower energy density.
Yes, you can run higher compression; the resistance to ignition compression is impressive and that's why drag racers use methanol. (although it is less efficient the ethanol...)
I'm not sure about compression, but your dynamic compression ratio is what matters most in this case not your static compression ratio. Here's a good write up on it Dynamic Compression ratio, well at least for me, but I'm a math major
Sorry to hijack
Great numbers once again, I'm thoroughly impressed
E85 has 65% the energy density of gas, that is the main downside.
Generally gas mileage goes down to because of the lower energy density.
Yes, you can run higher compression; the resistance to ignition compression is impressive and that's why drag racers use methanol. (although it is less efficient the ethanol...)
I'm not sure about compression, but your dynamic compression ratio is what matters most in this case not your static compression ratio. Here's a good write up on it Dynamic Compression ratio, well at least for me, but I'm a math major
Sorry to hijack
Great numbers once again, I'm thoroughly impressed
Interesting article about the DCR. There seems to be a discrepancy that I would hope you can clarify. For the 355 cuin example, with a 9.1 SCR, the 52° ABDC is reported at 7.93 DCR. I calculate 4.2 DCR using the equations provided (I had to assume 68cc heads, -10cc pistons, 0.015" in the hole, 0.039" gasket and 4.1" gasket diameter, 5.7" rods to reach 9.12 SCR).
04-11-2008, 10:25 PM
#72
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Robinson Township, PA
Posts: 292
Interesting article about the DCR. There seems to be a discrepancy that I would hope you can clarify. For the 355 cuin example, with a 9.1 SCR, the 52° ABDC is reported at 7.93 DCR. I calculate 4.2 DCR using the equations provided (I had to assume 68cc heads, -10cc pistons, 0.015" in the hole, 0.039" gasket and 4.1" gasket diameter, 5.7" rods to reach 9.12 SCR).
04-14-2008, 05:43 PM
#73
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
06-24-2008, 07:02 AM
#75
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