I'll agree with the sentiment here -

ATI and finally some of the other supercharger companies give you a complete intercooled kit, either 6 or 8psi of boost, which will eventually kill the stock engine (I've heard records of 30k!) but hey, whatever. I'm planning to run 8-10psi myself (8 on street and 10 on racegas on the strip) with very minor mods to the bottom end except a slight drop in compression and going forged.

If you can create a kit that will provide 8psi of boost with an intercooler for a reasonable price, single turbo or double, I think it'd be worth it.

I make the example here because if you were to give me a kit based on a 14b(405cfm), 16g(505cfm) or otherwise mitsubishi turbos with headers, lines, etc and I supplied my own turbos, that would make a big difference. For us "budget oriented" people... where I can get a pair of lightly used 14b turbos that would give me low boost for about $150-$200 for the both of them, and if I wanted to upgrade, just bolt on a bigger turbo and of course fuel system and bottom end, once I get $15000 to burn.

 

A twin turbo setup for LT1 F-bodies?!?! I think I just creamed myself definately a good idea was wondering how long it was going to take someone to do this bout friggin time as far as I'm concerned go for it and please keep us posted

 

Yeah, the CAS was the "Crack" of excitement. When I first heard about the Twin Turbo kit I was so excited. As I scrolled down to look at the price I hit the bottom fast! I'm still depressed. How are they going to recoup their costs selling only 4-8 kits? Seems better to have kits in circulation with testimonies as a reasonable priced alternative to superchargers and sell 5000 - 8000 kits. The money is in volume.

CAS is new to the LT1 has still has to be proven and work their bugs out. Their learning curve is normal with any new kit. The intro price for that option is UNREAL and will exclude potential buyers...

Business men should not be technicians and technicians should not be business men. There is no way a technician can handle the marketing, warranty, tech-line support, parts-support, packaging, shipping & delivery with tracking numbers, etc. All of these pull the technician away from what he does best and become distractions as the business grows. Plus, CAS made a fatal error by offering a price WITHOUT an accurate needs assessment to sample the price of the product versus the volume of sales. If they did that accurately, they would not have priced the kit at $7400 for the base kit.

The will sell a dozen kits in a year and come to the conclusion that no LT1 owners want turbos.

Bring the price to $3500 - $3800 for a complete starter kit, they will sell 3000-5000 in a year AND recoup their costs in volume. Once people get "hooked" on the boost, add upgrade packages (more profit), engine kits (more profit), turbo cams (more profit), and all those chromed shiny dress parts (more profit). Get established and take the industry!

I was reading a thread last night on Eagle H-Beam Rods. They were an unknown company entering a saturated market. Their strategy was to undercut the competition in price and send a quality product. The Chinese began to enter the market after a needs assessment and found a target price for their quality product. Then they expanded into complete forged bottom end assemblies... slowly they built up their reputation and recouped their costs 100 times over and now are an everyday name.

We'll see how many members on this board go for the CAS system. We'll see if their name becomes an everyday name like the other boost companies (ATI, Vortech, Powerdyne, etc). With that price they won't get much exposure.

The biggest problem with the Turbo Technologies kit from what I've gathered is the exhaust leaks. Welds break and the exhaust header/log is too thin and cracks. Use thick walled tubing and coat them, shouldn't be a problem.

 

I don't know why it's so hard to understand why a twin turbo kit is so much more expensive than a supercharger kit.

Lets see, your basic supercharger kit-

Supercharger and brackets and pullies
Intercooler (an option depending on brand)
plumbing
ignition system (not necessary, I'm at 634rwhp with no ignition)
in line fuel pump and FMU

Twin turbo kit-

"2" turbochargers and stainless downpipes
"2" stainless steel headers
"2" wastegates
intercooler and plumbing
programming and injectors
boost gauge and controller
intank fuel pump


The cost of an S-trim kit and aftercooler is $4,600.

Now add the cost of headers- $500

Programming- $250

Injectors- $350


Now your at $5,700 and you still need to spend a few hundred extra to buy pullies that will give you more than 6lbs of boost, and another few hundred for a decent bypass valve.

Now your at 6,100 for a "high horsepower" blower kit. Not too far away from the 6,500 twin turbo setup.


A twin-turbo setup for the same price as a blower setup just isn't going to happen considering how many more parts are involved.

Going fast isn't cheap. If someone is building an engine for a high horsepower forced induction application they aren't just going to strap on a base S-trim. They will need to buy the other parts I talked about above to make any real horsepower. The turbo setups are expensive, but I don't think the price is out of line considering what you would need to spend to get the same potential horsepower with a supercharger.

 

We've all heard of complete kits before and end up buying a bunch of there goodies to make it work. I agree with you INTMD8, it is very involved and encompasses many variables to make it work right.

Not really comparing here but to give an idea, my sister is on a list for her twin-turbo unit from Saab (I know but she thinks its cute). Anyways, GM will sell her a factory twin turbo kit complete for $3800... that's everything in a factory warranted kit.

What can be done at the small company end is to set up jigs and run the materials through at 50 or 100 Qty. Sell then re-set the jigs for another run... this will get volume to start. It can be done for less in the initial phase to get it out and establish credibility. That is marketing phase one.

 

http://www.turbocharged.net/

check this guys stuff out, hes been doing this for a long time i think and has been through hell from what i hear. i think his names brady and hes somewhere on this board. theres a vid of him running 5.9@110 in less than an 1/8 mile. definitely a 9 second car. ive been debatig it for a long time (tt's that is) and while i cant afford it now, its certainly something id like to do and part of the grand scheme. by the time i can afford it im sure there will be something out there anyways
keep us posted
brian

 

Exactamundo!! People realize this when they start pricing turbo parts, stainless tubing, headers/manifolds, etc.

Hell, I'd be happy w/ a quality single turbo kit.

 

Wasn't looking for a "plug"

If its not legitimate to ask for opinions, please feel free to delete the post.

I was just looking for some feedback before I sank tons of money into something like this.

Don't want to step on any toes man!!!

Thanks, and if we get this going I'll go ahead and have you do something for me like that.

Thanks again.

wes

 

No sweat, that is something we can totally understand.

We'd like to see this happen because I think the market could use something like this. Being a former LT1 owner, I know there is a HUGE need for this.

Quote:

Thanks, and if we get this going I'll go ahead and have you do something for me like that.

Hopefully, you can get this rolling and when you do, you won't forget about supporting us for helping you get it going and such. I can't tell you how many times we have been burned by companies using this site's feedback and resources to develop a new product and then when they get it developed, they suddenly find reasons not to support this site in return.

So, best of luck! Hope this site helps you and you will help this site in return.

 

One question I have though is all the turbo kits I've seen for cars are huge. Will we have to delete anything from our engine compartment (A/C, smog, strut tower braces, etc) to have it fit?? just curious

Thanks Myles

 

Good point about Cats... geez has to be in their stock locations. Single and dual cats is a variable to think about. EGR is another.

Third question, since we are building up our engines to handle the boost, has there been any venture into a 327 LT1 or 302 LT1 for boost applications? The revs could be nice with a TT Up to 7000 RPM on the stock PCM. I may start this question on another thread... don't want to bog this down with too many issues.

 

I'm definitely interested, I'm in college, but once I'm working full time, want to rebuild my engine with a 383 stroker kit, then forced induction. I've always been interested in turbos, so count me in.

 

Turbos are a great way to boost power and still keep the car with a mild idle. Be sure you forge your bottom end (crank, rods, pistons) to handle the boost. You can probably get by with 450 HP on the stock stuff but it isn't easy on the powertrain.

 

The cost of a turbo on an Fbody is way more than people want to spend... Just think, you are revamping the whole entire car/engine... If you have a turbocharged car from the factory it's easy (supra, dsm, vr4 etc) but not for us... First of all, ppl are forgetting that to actually be serious about using a turbocharger kit on a stock engine you need some sort of aftermarket pcm (ie FAST)... Stocker will only do so much, ask anybody with a properly set up turbocharged lt1. And honestly, to make a turbo kit truly complete you can't just sell the hardware/turbos, you have to include a decent blowoff valve, boost controller and all the other supporting parts... I mean there is no question about the performance or satisfaction from having a turbo and there is not question that it kicks any other form of forced induction but there are other issues (obviously) that are more important to many.

Now think, blower, you bolt it on and go, stock pcm. The instant boost with a turbo is a plus but I mean once we get to go so fast in a street car is having an intricate turbo system necessary??? It will help you have no traction that's for sure. I myself used to have a turbo technologies kit and I opted for the blower and I have no regrets about getting rid of it because I know it would have turned into a way bigger money pit than I could have ever imagined (since that turbo tech. kit lacks just about everything). The pit my blower creates can only fit one or two dead bodies, the turbo can fit about 10 =) If you can make a good turbo kit that's affordable, do it. Hell I'll get one myself. If it's not complete or affordable, don't waste your time. It's one thing for people to say they are line to buy one but it's another for it to actually happen.

Good luck with wherever this project goes.

 

Just saw the thread. God Wes you are at it again, you suck. Just when I thought I was going to be decently fast, you have to go and do this.