DrewHMS97SS

I am in the process of installing a Terminator X and am trying to figure out how to keep VATS with this setup. Part of the Terminator setup requires a 12v lead with power on run and crank. With the factory PCM completely removed, is there an easy way to power this wire only when the correct key is in the car?

Injuneer

The BCM reads the key. If it matches it sends a “start enable” ground to the theft deterrent relay. That allows the starter to crank. The TDR only receives power with the key in the “START” position.

If that “start enable” ground from the BCM is constant (remains active in “RUN” position) you might be able to use the same ground to activate a relay that passes switched 12V to the Terminator. I have no idea if it is constant.

By deleting the factory PCM completely the part of VATS you deleted is the BCM sending a 50Hz fuel enable signal to the PCM, when it sees the Opti pulses, on cranking. The PCM would normally supply 12V to enable the fuel pump relay.

How are you going to control the fuel pump? Will it run as soon as the key is in the “RUN” position?

DrewHMS97SS

Thank you as always Fred.

I will test the TDR ground while in the start position to see if the ground is constant. If so, that would effectively give the desired result as the ECU would not power on without the correct key. I read the description on shoe’s site, is the relay under the trim panel below the glove box in front of the door? If so, is there an easy way to identify which relay is which?

For the fuel pump, the Terminator has a 12v power to fuel pump lead that I was going to run to the pump relay, which I think is under the driver side kick panel. I have the hot wire kit installed, so this should just kick on the hot wire relay and give direct power from the alternator.

Injuneer

I've never looked for the TDR. Reread Shoebox’s description, under “Common Issues”.

See this thread, post #4. Shoebox notes one is the TDR, one is the hatch release relay.

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/gen...cation-887482/

DrewHMS97SS

Thanks again, that is not what I was thinking. I’ll report back post testing.

DrewHMS97SS

Stepping into this a bit more, I was able to fully remove the engine harness and am trying to map out the leads.

Between Shoebox, the '96 manual and this LT1 swap pinout, I have most items identified, but would like a second set of eyes on the topic. Here is a break out of the connectors and what I know so far.

C210
A - Starter solenoid - Connected to the starter
B - PCM positive voltage - It appears that this just provides power for the PCM and I believe can be removed (the Terminator has dedicated power from the battery)
C - Fuel pump test port - Stays in normal location to trigger the fuel pump relay
D - Ground - Will be grounded to the block

C220
A - Alternator feed to instrument cluster - With the stock instrument removed, will this still trigger the alternator to charge when on?
B - Oil Pressure to IC - REMOVED (read from the Terminator)
C - Oil Level to IC - REMOVED - No sensor
E - Power feed from PCM IGN fuse - unsure if needed
G - VSS - REMOVED - GPS speed from Pro Dash
H - Skip shift - Removed
J - Fuel pump relay - Either from the Terminator fuel pump power, or as described below
K - Coolant temp to IC - REMOVED (read from the Terminator)

C230
B - SES feed - REMOVED
C - Diagnostic request signal - Believed to be safe for removal
D - Tach to IC - REMOVED - (read from the Terminator)
E - Theft Deterrent - Fuel enable
From the previous conversation, this is a triggered ground once the key is verified, where I believe I can do the following (ground on start still needs to be verified):
- TDR ground to Terminator input (ground trigger)
- Terminator fuel pump activation C220 pin J
- Terminator config to enable the fuel pump with TDR is grounded
The other option is to install another relay to keep the Terminator off until TDR is passed:
- C210 pin B to relay pins 87 & 85
- C230 pin E to relay pin 86
- Relay pin 30 to Terminator ignition trigger
F - A/C Request signal - Still researching how to trigger A/C
H - Power feed from Engine sensor fuse 10 - Connected to transmission
J - Backup lamp feed - Connected to transmission
K - Output/Field service enable - Believed to be safe for removal

There was also a 3 pin female connector that has the A/C pressure sensor plug attached to it. Looking at page 2298 of the guide the wires appear to be off the A/C refrigerant pressure sensor.
A Gray - 5v reference / MAP / A/C Temp & pressure
B Blue - A/C EVAP temp
C Black - Ground

For the engine side, I believe I can completely remove C105, as the car is not equipped with TCS, but still some use in C100.

C105
A - TCS - REMOVE
B - Sensor power - REMOVE
C - TCS - REMOVE
E - Serial Data (UART) (Most F-Body & B-Body) (Diag Port) - REMOVE
G - TCS - REMOVE

C100
A - Injector power - REMOVE
B - A/C Clutch Relay Control - still researching A/C
C - A/C compressor clutch solenoid feed - still researching A/C
E - AIR Pump Relay Control - REMOVE
F - Power feed from actuators fuse 2 - What is this?
G - Power feed from ignition fuse 11 - Is this needed?
H - Fan relay control - Wire to Terminator output
J - Fan relay control - Wire to Terminator output

Injuneer

Fuel enable is not a ground. It is a 50Hz square wave signal.

You need "Start Enable"..... the wire from the BCM to the TDR. That is a ground supplied to pull in the relay. And you want to verify that it is a continuous ground in BOTH "START" and "RUN". If it isn't there in "RUN" it can't be used to activate the Terminator.

DrewHMS97SS

Thanks again Fred, this is on the list today.

For the A/C investigation, what is this?

DrewHMS97SS

I think I answered my own question; I believe this is the 1 amp diode for the A/C circuit.

Injuneer

That appears to be it, from Shoebox’s schematic.

http://shbox.com/1/hvac_compressor_control.jpg

First time I’ve ever actually seen it (my AC was deleted 20 years ago).

DrewHMS97SS

Thanks! I still need to work to getting the ground tested for VATS, I was not able to get the relay off the pull the wires, but know where it is. This is on my list for follow up as adding a second relay to trigger power to the PCM would be pretty easy as long as the ground works as we think. I was also thinking about making a hidden switch for the ground to the fuel pump relay as an extra layer. I am still contemplating.