jimlab

Is that with the driver or without?

In '01, Joe apparently listed the car at 3,574 lbs. (see link) How did he manage to shave 400 more lbs. off an automatic car?

http://www.f-body.org/timeslips/display_more.cfm?id=671

BTW, you'll have to explain "DA".

LTOne4Fun

WIth driver 3175. He hadnt taken much of anything out at 3500 lbs. Bogarts, some "trimming" and some other lightweight parts and voila, its 3175

DA is density altitiude, corrects for temperature and humidity and altitude.

jimlab

Thanks, I figured it had to do with correction for track conditions, but I've never heard anyone use that acronym before.

Joe e-mailed and said he tried to post but something was wrong with his account, so I'll post it for him. His first e-mail said...

"In general I'm putting down roughly 638 rwhp, 780+ at the crank and just this past weekend ran 137.96 mph poppin the muffs loose...track that day just wasnt good enough to get a ET and DA was 2000+ ... cam in general is 250ish @.050 solid roller .650+ lift..."

His second e-mail said...

"just one note on those hp numbers I only have up to 4400 rpm before it spun on the rollers so they are generalized also only clear numbers i have are 426 rwhp 581 ft lbs@4400 rpm everything above that was useless.. I read the thread however and I'd say you and or mindgame would be hardpressed to accomplish that kind of hp without comp and running race gas..no matter what heads or how well they flow..and just for the record I shift at 7200 rpm..."

PNYKILR

That must be one steep hp curve between 4400 and 7200 rpms. He's gains over 200 hp. Didn't know a LT1 could make that kind of power. What kind of heads does he have???

Fast Caddie

Good grief, if a GenI SBC can do it, an LT1 can too. I've been wanting to go the same route Mg did for a while, but $$$ constraints won't let me do it. LT1s can make wicked power, regardless of what the LS1 or mustang guys say.

Momar

Well, the larger the cam the steeper the curve gets. Also, that is nearly 3000 RPM. That is actually quite a bit of time to gain power.

Ben

LTOne4Fun

Tin shed racing AFRs

Mindgame

638 rwhp, 250-ish @.050 cam...... it's a strong small block race motor. Not to take anything away from Joe, just calling this like I see it.
It is tough very tough HP'ing a car from ET's. I was running a similar setup as Joe in 95' (Super Street)... 392 cid, 786hp @ 7680 rpm and consistent high 8 second ET's, with a best of 8.63 at 158.63 mph. So that might tell you a little.
On the other end of the spectrum, alot of stock elim cars are running low 10's with less than 500 hp. It's all in the setup.

Jim's original question is legitimate enough... I don't think anyone here's bragging, just showing curiosity. Since I've been on this site I've read about quite a few interesting projects so it's always interesting seeing where everyone's at. Whether you want to be the "fastest" or have the most hp... all that maters is that we're all into the same thing and if it ever ceases to provide some enjoyment.... I'll find another hobby.

-Mindgame

TRICK95

I just wanna give you guys the props deserved, you're like fulfilling something I'd like to do, and attempting to do (ever so slowly) and got mucho respect for staying LT1-true and making sick power with restrictions like streetability, etc. I love NMCA-type cars and street cars, but nothing is meaner than a car that can be driven virtually anywhere and still slaughter most any car out there. A quality that the NMCA and other sanctions have gotten WAY out of hand with since around the time I began interest back in Memphis in '92.
C'mon already. Pro-mod shells and callin' it a street car?!?!

Still impressive though, so ya can't win.

Good job guys, and good luck!

Joe O

Now that i got my e-mail I'll share in this thread..but first off I will address Mindgame ..I'd like to say that any Lt1 producing 700+hp N/A is "race oriented"
so what makes street or not street? would it be the 4.11 gear I run or would it be the tight 4000 stall I have ..Just curious...nobody is reinventing the wheel here,and quality built engines are found nationwide,,just got to find the right "knowledgeable" builders.
It takes more than a big flowing set of heads and a set of T&D shafts to make the hp contemplated in this thread... combination is key,but its not to say that myself of anyone else can designate what a street engine is or isnt...But I will say "anyone" claiming its not a race engine just because you throw 100 bucks worth of groceries in the hatch and take it for a lullaby cruise is full of it... If you choose to put in the quality parts necessary to obtain those numbers and choose to put wear and tear on it just to say its streetable.... go for it... but i guarantee the "700 hp" engines that will be built wont vary much in parts choice from what I run or anyone else making the same genaral hp with a LT1. So the issue of Hp vs street or not street and for those that "think" they know more than others about engine or engine building... atleast be honest... If you choose to slap a OD tranny or 6 speed behind a "race" engine and drive it on the street does it make you special ? or does it make you someone thats just foolish and has a paid off credit card? I see HP brought up entirely to much .Does one forget that torque motivates a car and Hp just keeps it moving? 700 hp is 700 hp doesnt matter which car its in or the weight of any vehichle other than for track only purposes but both will have the same precision /quality work in either...I wouldn't make such bold statements,but I know what it takes to make those numbers.. And i surely wouldnt try to make people believe its a daily driver engine by no means...maybe a cruise here and there, every now and then.But not your dependable daily mode of transportation..

treyZ28

I agree 100%
The differance b/t a good engine builder and someone whos read a few books is how streetable it is.

I bet I could make a 700hp Lt1. But if you ever had to drive it to work you might just kill yourself. The top guys make them better

btw-
are you guys talking 700rwhp?
if this is the case, I honestly dont think id be able to make a 700rwhp LT1 NA without some INSANE cam and CRAZY heads.

jonaddis84

I dont want to be an ***, Im not trying to, but I just want to say this.

Yeah these engines are high horsepower, really really high, and thats sweet. But you cant really call it an LT1, since it really isnt anymore.

1. Not a 350 anymore
2. Completely different rotating assembly, oilpan, pump, everything
3. (The big one) Different heads, not LT1 anymore, SB heads, different degree
4. Different intake, some not even fuel injected, not sure if these cases are or not

In my mind the lt1 is all in the heads and the intake, since no other engine is like it in those regards. Basically these are high horsepower SB chevys, which if you were to look at those, I dont know if these would still be really high HP, but you will definitely find a lot more close to them.

Somebody correct me if this is nonsense, I didnt mean to ruin fun or anything, I love these engines, and thats a crapload of HP whatever way you look at it, but its just not an LT1 anymore.

jimlab

I don't.

I hear what Joe is saying, but he seems to be implying that the engines we've built are just race engines driven on the street, just like his is. Correct me if I'm way off base here, Joe.

But can you fill up at the pump on 92-93 octane and still run WOT? Can you drive your car in rush hour traffic for an hour without it overheating? Could you take a 200+ mile trip in your car without it driving you insane from all the dampening material and interior pieces you may have removed to shave weight?

Sure, my engine may be a little temperamental compared to a more streetable hydraulic cam combination, for example, but there's a big difference in my book between driving a race engine (or race car) on the street, and driving something that's actually been built for street use, if not necessarily for daily driver use. Mark knew full well what my requirements were before we even started assembly... pump gas and reasonable street manners. Sure, it'll have a bit of cam surge down low, but its powerband doesn't start at 4,000+ rpm either, and it makes plenty of torque. Everywhere.

I don't think anyone is trying to lead people believe that these are daily driver engines we're talking about. But I still think there's a big difference between your engine and ours, and I think you'll find that it's more than likely the cylinder heads. We may not be reinventing the wheel, but no one previously was pulling this much power out of naturally aspirated LT1s on pump gas with reasonable streetability. SBC cylinder heads converted for the LT1 have made this possible.

I will agree that there's a fairly fine line between my engine being a "race" engine or a "street" engine, and all it would have taken is a bit more porting, a bigger cam, and higher compression, and we could have pulled another 100 horsepower out of it pretty easily. But I couldn't have filled up at any old gas station, and it would have been a royal pain in the *** to drive on the street in stop-and-go traffic. That extra power just wasn't worth it to me, and so I consider my engine a street engine, even if compared to most others, it should be classed as a race engine. Fair enough?

jimlab

You sound a little like some of the RX-7 owners who try to tell me I don't have an RX-7 any more because I'm putting an LT1 between the fenders. However, most of the parts on my car would still have to be replaced over a Mazda parts counter.

These are the same people who would argue that an RX-7 with a Lenco and a 9 inch in the back is still an RX-7 because it has a rotary engine. They'd even argue that an RX-7 with a 20B 3-rotor imported from Japan is still an RX-7, even though the RX-7 was never offered with the 20B anywhere, and it's as much of an engine swap as an LT1 (possibly more), because it's still a rotary engine. These are the people who claim I've torn the soul out of the car and that makes it an abomination of the worst kind. There's a name for people like that... "rotards".

You see, their definition for RX-7 is "rotary engine". My definition of RX-7 is the package. It's not a Corvette, it's not a Camaro, it may be an RX-7 with a Corvette/Camaro engine, but it's still an RX-7. If it were parked next to a factory original RX-7, would you be able to tell that it had a V8 under the hood? No, and you'll see the distinction I'm making illustrated in a couple seconds.

I don't agree that displacement changes the identity of the motor. By this logic, a rebuilt LT1 with a 0.030" overbore woudn't be an LT1 any longer because it displaced 355 CID.

I don't agree that aftermarket parts change the identity of the engine either. If so, then anyone who installs aftermarket rocker arms on their engine no longer has an LT1 either, strictly speaking. How about headers? The LT1 didn't come with headers either. Where do you draw the line? It's still an LT1 under all the aftermarket parts. The identity is the block, not what's bolted to it.

Let's see... Opti-spark, reverse coolant flow, one-piece rear main seal, AFR heads. Hmmm, must be an LT1. Does putting GM Fast Burn cylinder heads on an SBC change it into something else? An LS1 perhaps?

Unless you change the block, you're still dealing with an LT1 in my opinion.

There are LT1-specific (again, remember the reverse coolant flow) intakes with carburetor pads available from GM. Installing one doesn't make the engine anything other than an LT1 with a carb intake. The same goes for a sheet metal intakes. It may make the engine a modified LT1, or even a heavily modified LT1, but it's still an LT1.

With LT1 blocks...

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I happen to disagree. AFR heads don't make an LT1 an SBC, and they sure don't make it an LS1. In my opinion, if you're using an LT1 block, then you're still playing within the limits of the original design.

There are a number of parts (including aftermarket blocks) that are available if you're building an SBC that aren't if the platform is an LT1. We've brought some SBC parts into the mix, to be sure, (and for the better, in my opinion) but that doesn't make our engines SBCs because of it... with the exception that they're late-model LT1 SBCs...

See what I'm saying?

Kraest

No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."


Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....


Just calling it as I see it...

Mike