Who makes the most NA horsepower with an LT1?
03-26-2003, 06:27 AM
#46
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Originally posted by Kraest
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
03-26-2003, 07:22 AM
#47
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Originally posted by jimlab
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I happen to disagree. AFR heads don't make an LT1 an SBC, and they sure don't make it an LS1. In my opinion, if you're using an LT1 block, then you're still playing within the limits of the original design.
There are a number of parts (including aftermarket blocks) that are available if you're building an SBC that aren't if the platform is an LT1. We've brought some SBC parts into the mix, to be sure, (and for the better, in my opinion) but that doesn't make our engines SBCs because of it... with the exception that they're late-model LT1 SBCs...
See what I'm saying?
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I happen to disagree. AFR heads don't make an LT1 an SBC, and they sure don't make it an LS1. In my opinion, if you're using an LT1 block, then you're still playing within the limits of the original design.
There are a number of parts (including aftermarket blocks) that are available if you're building an SBC that aren't if the platform is an LT1. We've brought some SBC parts into the mix, to be sure, (and for the better, in my opinion) but that doesn't make our engines SBCs because of it... with the exception that they're late-model LT1 SBCs...
See what I'm saying?
Yeah I do, I guess there was more stuff that I forgot that made an LT1, like the one piece seal, I knew about the reverse flow but I figured the new heads werent, and the optispark I also figured that was gone too. I didnt mean to sound like I was trying to say you took the soul out of it, because its still a small V8 with lots of HP.
03-26-2003, 07:37 AM
#48
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Originally posted by Kraest
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
Mike...I bow before you!
I love it when someone gets shoved back in his place...
03-26-2003, 08:04 AM
#49
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joes car still has optiCrap, motor is smaller than most guy build for their fast street cars the thermostat is still in the watterpump not the intake and heads are AFRs for a LT1.
Only thing he changed is the intake. SOmoen would be hard presse to make a street motor that made 700rwhp NA, on pump gas AND wiht that LT1 intake. Thats silly almost.
the thermostat is still in the watterpump not the intake and heads are AFRs for a LT1.Only thing he changed is the intake. SOmoen would be hard presse to make a street motor that made 700rwhp NA, on pump gas AND wiht that LT1 intake. Thats silly almost.
03-26-2003, 08:38 AM
#50
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Gotta love the internet world...
1)LT1 is designated by the block
2) yes I could idle in traffic ,I have a hard enough time getting it just to operating temperature...but as I said before theres nothing to prove.
3) Heads do make power ,but I dont remember releasing any flow numbers as I recall ..So dont be so quick to judge that you have the best flowing heads on the planet
4) how can you knock someone thats done what is comtemplated here and not have done it yourself with a LT1.
5) Note gearing (4.11 in case you forgot) might want to make a comparison to others running similiar times...which I might add is a street car gear
6) anyone wondering I still run the opti and it will spin to 8k without a hiccup
7) most certainly I could tune the car and run pump gas .I dont run as much compression as one would think..
This is a thread on 700+NA hp lt1's is it not? this is not a question of whos the better builder, or has the better flowing set of heads..And I'm not putting down any other builders either..but be realistic its a "race engine" no matter how you slice it or want to define it..
As far as whether theres more to be had, most certainly. my combo isnt optimized either and has more potential.
Jim when you get that thing on the dyno post up .I'd love to see it..Just dont be disappointed after you see the graph... chassis dyno and engine dyno is 2 different things
1)LT1 is designated by the block
2) yes I could idle in traffic ,I have a hard enough time getting it just to operating temperature...but as I said before theres nothing to prove.
3) Heads do make power ,but I dont remember releasing any flow numbers as I recall ..So dont be so quick to judge that you have the best flowing heads on the planet
4) how can you knock someone thats done what is comtemplated here and not have done it yourself with a LT1.
5) Note gearing (4.11 in case you forgot) might want to make a comparison to others running similiar times...which I might add is a street car gear
6) anyone wondering I still run the opti and it will spin to 8k without a hiccup
7) most certainly I could tune the car and run pump gas .I dont run as much compression as one would think..
This is a thread on 700+NA hp lt1's is it not? this is not a question of whos the better builder, or has the better flowing set of heads..And I'm not putting down any other builders either..but be realistic its a "race engine" no matter how you slice it or want to define it..
As far as whether theres more to be had, most certainly. my combo isnt optimized either and has more potential.
Jim when you get that thing on the dyno post up .I'd love to see it..Just dont be disappointed after you see the graph...
chassis dyno and engine dyno is 2 different things
Last edited by Joe O; 03-26-2003 at 11:13 AM.
03-26-2003, 11:31 AM
#51
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Fair enough, it's a race engine. For the street.
I think the only person who thinks anyone is trying to make this competitive is you, Joe. The thread started because someone posted in my epic-length thread on the RX-7 forum that there were 800+ NA horsepower Dominion-headed LT1s out there. I don't think anyone's shown any sort of proof that a Dominion-headed LT1 is even running at the moment, let alone making 800+ NA horsepower.
This isn't about who has better heads or spent the most on parts. However, I think you'd be surprised how small my intake runners are compared to your 227s and yet our flow numbers are probably similar, but it's neither here nor there. I didn't say that I had the best LT1 heads under the sun. Mindgame does. Just kidding.
So let's drop the competitive mindset and if you'll quit trying to "put me in my place", (whether it was intentional or unintentional) let's just agree that the thread is about high horsepower LT1s.
I think the only person who thinks anyone is trying to make this competitive is you, Joe. The thread started because someone posted in my epic-length thread on the RX-7 forum that there were 800+ NA horsepower Dominion-headed LT1s out there. I don't think anyone's shown any sort of proof that a Dominion-headed LT1 is even running at the moment, let alone making 800+ NA horsepower.
This isn't about who has better heads or spent the most on parts. However, I think you'd be surprised how small my intake runners are compared to your 227s and yet our flow numbers are probably similar, but it's neither here nor there. I didn't say that I had the best LT1 heads under the sun. Mindgame does. Just kidding.
So let's drop the competitive mindset and if you'll quit trying to "put me in my place", (whether it was intentional or unintentional) let's just agree that the thread is about high horsepower LT1s.
03-26-2003, 12:03 PM
#52
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Originally posted by Kraest
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
No offense, but you messaged me the other day and asked if the MAF was used under WOT, the difference between open and closed loop, and for help in writing your "LT1 FAQ."
Having the audacity to try to make yourself look like an LT1 Internet Guru in front of people who actually know what it takes to make a 600+ hp LT1 motor and calling it "easy" is complete insanity.....
Just calling it as I see it...
Mike
To sit here and argue who can or cant is pointless- unless you have a thousand dollars you want to donate.
Last edited by treyZ28; 03-26-2003 at 01:32 PM.
03-26-2003, 12:28 PM
#53
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Just FYI, using an online calculator, with a 3,175 lb. car weight (assuming that includes Joe, fuel, etc.), estimated 20% drivetrain losses (A3, etc.), and 137.9 mph trap speed, I get 706.6 at the crank and 565.3 at the rear wheels.
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php
I'm not sure where this 700 RWHP figure came from.
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php
I'm not sure where this 700 RWHP figure came from.
03-26-2003, 12:39 PM
#54
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I'm a lil confused here..I get a e-mail inviting to share in the topic...people state their opinions .I stated mine.. I just dont see the differences between a high hp street (race engine) or a what I have...But its been pointed out several times throughout this discussion referencing "Joes Drag Car" interior,drag race gearing etc. when in fact i have interior (carpet interior panels etc.) and less gearing than some street cars have,plus all the safety equipment to go along with it ..I just dont see the differences...So you choose to go a tad bit lower in compression just to run pump fuel .Ok so thats your choice you traded hp to run premium...still doesn't make it as street as you would try to make someone believe...look at your cam profile...are you going to be cruising at 4000+ rpm ? I think not....All I'm saying theirs no distinquishing factor other than the owner ,and what he can tolerate, or call streetable. So lets break it down internally ,cam above streetable,good flowing heads ..wheres the differences? Compression?Mindgame even made mention of a vacuum pump ,automatically I know that engine will need rings in a very short amount of time,If its a daily driven as claimed.So its clearly not a "street" engine as so put it...I'm not attacking you Jim or Mindgame...In reality I was replying to the fact..that other than accept that possibility I could street drive my car before I even posted.It was felt the need to point out I had something totally different when it isnt. All I did was straighten out facts so please dont try to turn this around to look like anything else...You choose to drive a race oriented engine on the street..I don't ,it doesn't classify one setup better than the other or make them that much different as far as assembly or parts used. As I said before Its up to the owner to decide..Indeed this is about high end hp Lt1's ,and I'm glad to see people are still pushing the envelope.. I'm doing the same thing ,I just dont feel theirs any return for going to mcdonalds other than for a hot fudge sundae...not just to say I drove my car there..
03-26-2003, 12:48 PM
#56
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http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc...HandWeight.asp
hmmm,guess its in whats more accurate or whos calculator you use 650.66 rwhp per that calc.
hmmm,guess its in whats more accurate or whos calculator you use
650.66 rwhp per that calc.
Last edited by Joe O; 03-26-2003 at 12:59 PM.
03-26-2003, 01:36 PM
#57
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Originally posted by Joe O
http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc...HandWeight.asp
hmmm,guess its in whats more accurate or whos calculator you use 650.66 rwhp per that calc.
http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc...HandWeight.asp
hmmm,guess its in whats more accurate or whos calculator you use
650.66 rwhp per that calc.
According to my speed/weight on there, my car has 445 rwhp through the auto..... It'd be nice if it did, but I know for a fact that it doesn't
Mike
Last edited by Kraest; 03-26-2003 at 01:42 PM.
03-26-2003, 02:31 PM
#58
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Originally posted by Kraest
Not to **** on your parade, but the one at prestage.com is off quite a bit
According to my speed/weight on there, my car has 445 rwhp through the auto..... It'd be nice if it did, but I know for a fact that it doesn't
Mike
Not to **** on your parade, but the one at prestage.com is off quite a bit
According to my speed/weight on there, my car has 445 rwhp through the auto..... It'd be nice if it did, but I know for a fact that it doesn't
Mike
My stock Z28 with full exhuast and gears had 334.64 through an auto
edit: And I only put down 3600 lbs-
i forgot to add 170lbs for my fat ***
03-26-2003, 02:42 PM
#59
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oh your not pissing on my parade...I was just making a point .Theres many calcs on the net ..I'm sure i can search around and get several different numbers..... Only numbers I know that are real is timeslip I get at the end of the 1/4...dyno's and dyno #'s are for bench racing..In the real world they mean nothing and are only useful for tuning and even that is a stretch since the load on a engine is different than a car in motion...kinda like flow benches for heads...
03-26-2003, 04:41 PM
#60
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Not going to pretend like I've spent the time to read through all of this... but first, I'd have to agree with mindgame.. who cares about ET/Trap speeds. Why would you throw so many extraneous variables into something so simple? Dyno it.. use like, or compare both standard and sae correction factors, and thats it... easy.
The other thing... if it doesn't have production style (not converted) LT1/LT4 heads on it, then IMO it isnt an LT1.. it's just another SBC. Not that there's anything wrong with that
Cool thread with some awesome examples cited... and some funny stuff from people talking over their heads.
Mayhaps if I can ever finish my little overbore LT1 rebuild, it'll be something worth mentioning. Stock PCM, production LT1 heads and intake, 35Xcid, and a hydraulic I have to honestly drive daily 30-60 miles in traffic. Not that I'm not tempted to run some sb2.2's with a harsh solid and DFI... Hell, I'd probably still tell people it was an 'LT1' too
Nice #'s jim, I'm sure it'll be impressive once it's worked out. Nice #'s Mindgame.. but that's unfair.. using Chuck to make power. Ahh, and nice to see you in the 9's Joe
-Phil
The other thing... if it doesn't have production style (not converted) LT1/LT4 heads on it, then IMO it isnt an LT1.. it's just another SBC. Not that there's anything wrong with that
Cool thread with some awesome examples cited... and some funny stuff from people talking over their heads.
Mayhaps if I can ever finish my little overbore LT1 rebuild, it'll be something worth mentioning. Stock PCM, production LT1 heads and intake, 35Xcid, and a hydraulic I have to honestly drive daily 30-60 miles in traffic
. Not that I'm not tempted to run some sb2.2's with a harsh solid and DFI... Hell, I'd probably still tell people it was an 'LT1' too Nice #'s jim, I'm sure it'll be impressive once it's worked out. Nice #'s Mindgame.. but that's unfair.. using Chuck to make power
. Ahh, and nice to see you in the 9's Joe -Phil