Valkyn71

Come hell or highwater im going to put a cam in my car this spring, as well as springs, 1.6rrs, lifters, push rods, ect..

The car is a 95 T/A with 40k on the motor, 6 speed with 3.42 gears. I plan on installing mac shorties at the same time i do the cam.

I have no intention of spending the money it costs to have larger valves ground in, or the heads port and polished. Everything i have read puts the price of that at around $800+, and some guys seem to be getting 350+ RWHP on setups similiar to what i will be doing.

I have done searches and read alot of threads about cams for similiar setups, and have gotten it down to these two cams.

My question for you guys is which of these would work better on the setup im going for. I have read a few threads that said the XE218/224 actually makes better power than the 224/230 on stock vavled non P&P heads, this so?

If anyone could post some dyno graphs or input to help me decided it would be much apprechiated.

Austin

Chris 96 WS6

Depends on what your definition of "better" is.

The 224/230 will make more power, but at a higher RPM. Your low end tq will not be as great, because the tq peak will move up in the RPM range as well.

Expect the 224/230 to make 15-20 more peak HP vs. the 218/224.

As to which one is "better", it all depends on several things. 1, your goals for the car, 2, your tollerance for drivability issues, and 3, in terms of how fast the car will be, the 224/230 will like more rear gear since the HP/TQ is moved up in the power range.

the 218/224 should idle near-stock.

Valkyn71

Woops i knew i forgot something.

My goals are simply a mid 12 second car, i dont have to worry about emissions, but would like the car to retain some street manners and gas milage.


my definition of "better" would be higher HP without revving the car past around 6200, or whatever is safe for a stock bottem end.

thanks for the speedy responce btw

Chris 96 WS6

M6 or A4? That will make a difference too.

Going to be real hard to hit mid 12's with the 218/224 on stock heads. The 224/230 should be the ticket you're looking for. My car makes peak power at about 5900 and I spin it to 6200 rpm shifts, thats with fully ported heads, etc. etc.

So I think you are fine RPM-wise with either, but the 218/224 is not going to make enough power to get you to 12.5s-12.6s on stock heads.

Valkyn71

car is a M6, man i cant remember to post anything today.


What kinda power would you predict on this setup?

EDIT

Wait i did post its a 6 speed, im not crazy!

Fastbird93

If you're staying on stock heads, the 218/224 would be a more efficient choice. The 224/230 will make good power too, but the TQ curve will suffer some and you'll have to spin it higher to make the same power. The 218/224 is a very good match to stock heads. There's one guy on here that made 343/343 Corrected RWHP/TQ on it and bolt on's.

Don't get me wrong, the 224/230 is a GREAT cam. Note the power output of Chris96WS6 and me, both pretty stout with very nice TQ curves. But that's with ported heads.

Stock heads, 218/224 all the way. Just my $.02

Valkyn71

Does the XE224/230 respond well to a mild port and polish, while maintaining the stock size valves?


I may go crazy some day and wanna spend $400 on that.

Kryckter

all around the 224\230 cam is a better cam. I have one in my daily driver and have computer tuning and it runs and idles great. It will make more power with stock heads and will make more power and respond better to other mods such as port and polish heads and such. My opinion is dont hold back, alot of people will always wish the went bigger so save the time and money and go bigger the first time!

hsyr

To get 350rwhp out of a stockheaded LT1 I think you are going to need a bigger cam than that. I'd look more at the XE 233/239, CC306, GM847 cams. It will cost the same as a smaller cam install, without wishing that you went bigger

Chris 96 WS6

Any cam is going to like more head flow....so its not a question of the 224/230 responding or not responding to some porting. All these cams are physically the same and work the same, some just have bigger bumps than others

The same principles that work to make power on the 218/224 apply to the larger cam, they are just exaggerated and/or take place at different RPM points. Its all just based on moving the valve events around a little.

Notice the exhaust duration on the smaller cam is the same as the intake duration on the bigger cam, its because its the same lobe design.

The 224/230 will make more power regardless. It is nowhere near big enough to be considered bad for the stock heads. Now if we were talking about the 218/224 vs a 242/248 then yeah, the big one is going to run like dog crap with stock heads.

224/230 with stock heads, longtubes, M6 I see 340+hp to the wheels. 218/224 with stock heads, longtubes, M6 I see 320-325.

stereomandan

The 218/224 has already been proven to dyno 343HP/343TQ with SLP shorties on a M6.

Look at 94formulabz

The 218/224 is what I'm getting. I've looked at the 224/230, hotcam, CC305, but the 218/224 looks like the best for me. I also don't plan on doing heads.

Dan

ImpySS

I have the 502 on stock heads in my Impy, and I'll agree it is a great streat cam. Mild idle (you can tell its not stock though through my dual hookers), hardly any surge except at 50mph with the converter locked, and pulls strong to about 5800. Now that I'm adding ported heads though, it's not enough. When I slap on the heads I'm going to swap in the 503. I think it will match better to my 3000 stall and 3.73s gears and it is more of what I am looking for. So if you plan on adding heads later (which I didn't ORIGINALLY, but eventually, like always, I wanted more) I would go with the 503, I think you'll be happier down the road, and plenty happy now. If you really believe you'll leave the heads stock, stick with the 502. Good luck.

94GrayV6

The Crane 210/224 is the best cam for stock heads. The driveability is excellent and the powerband is VERY broad. You will not see peak numbers as high as the XE 224/230, but your car will run better with the Crane.

Here is all the evidence you need:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=198238

truedualws6

I did a ton of research before making a cam purchase. And all
the research pointed to the Crane 210/224. I will not be porting
the heads or intake or installing headers. I will also be running
through the cats. I also don't want to deal with a custom program.
If the Crane dyno numbers are anywhere near correct, I hope
to make 340 to 350 rwhp with it.

94formulabz

Show me 1 stock head dyno of a 224 putting down 358-363 SAE rwhp. Granted, i do have just about every bolt on imaginable, but I have yet to see 1 stock headed 224/230 dyno more than 343 sae.

IMHO the 218/224 is better on stock heads. Although the differences will be marginal, your power will be the same or better, gas milage, cam surge, and tuning difficulty should all be in favor of the 218/224. Thats what comp recommends for stock heads, maybe thats for a reason.

I fully agree that the 210/224 and GM zz3 are also great cams for stock heads. Actually, so are the cc306 and even GM 847 (atljar), if you want a max effert track cam with a super choppy idle and don't mind spinning to 6800.

Fastbird and stereoman, thanks for representin the cc502!

-brent