No no, once again, I am merely suggesting that if this scenerio takes place:

The auto industry generates 500 million dollars in 2007

The U.S. allows for total imports not to exceed $300,000,000 in revenue (not actual data)

$200,000,000 was generated by domestically built vehicles.
$300,000,000 was generated by vehicles that were either imported or built within the U.S. by a forign auto manufacturer.

THAN THIS MAY BE A SOLUTION!

A new bill is passed putting a monetary profit tarif on import COMPANIES and the vehicles they produce...yipee!

Now, the U.S. allows for import manufacturers to not exceed $75,000,000 in profits. Guess what?! That is 225,000,000 poped back into the U.S. economy, more money = more jobs, more jobs = better quality of living.

I am not suggesting we take away our constitutional right to choice, but if there are less imported cars, the prices would be much higher, and it would give our manufactures the ability to make cars more affordable... this is plain logic. You commented on the quality issue again... Why must everyone say there is that much of a quality difference?! Warranties are as good, if not better in some cases than the forign boys, and the quality gap has been closed. The stereotypical american hoopty is just no longer accurate. I recently read a interview with Bob Lutz, where he spoke of quality, do a search on the board for it, its a very compelling piece.

Charlie

 

First off, you don't know economics as well as you think. Just because more money flows through this country than the rest of the world doesn't mean we can make do without them or their products, services and labor. It's our own arrogance similar to yours that has helped get us to where we are today. Without healthy foreign competition you wouldn't have the quality, advanced products you have today. You'd still be driving a 160 hp 350 CI V8 that gets 16 mpg on the highway and breaks down every 20K miles.

Secondly, there already are tariffs on imported vehicles. You think they started building them (Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's Mitsubishi's and soon to be Hyundai's) here because they like to pay more for labor? If you tax the companies, there really wouldn't be much more incentive for them to keep their plants here so they would/could move all their plants to Mexico since at that point it really wouldn't matter where they built them. Say bye bye to those jobs. Nice plan.

Thirdly, whether you want to believe it or not, a large part of our economy is based on foreign countries. One way is through exporting of goods, especially agricultural ones. Another is through borrowing the money we don't have (since we love to live on credit) from other countries. There is something called the World Trade Organization that helps determine fair trading practices amongst nations. You start putting steep tariffs on imported goods and you'll quickly find yourself without TV's, Electronics, Textiles, etc. and you'll equally quickly find a country full of pissed off farmers who crops are worthless because gorvernment subsidies and the export market have completely dried up.

Getting back to the original message about unions, this country can be more than competitive and healthy WITH unions. There are two different ways unions could help the U.S. auto industry, though. One way would be to recognize the competitive disadvantage they put the U.S. auto makers at and learn to be more flexible with contracts, etc. The other way would be to aggressively pursue unionizing the transplants. So far, they have tried the latter without much success. This is why they have recently begun to try the former. I'm sure there plan is simple. Make some small concessions now to make the U.S. industry healthier while continuing to attempt to organize the transplants. Once the transplants unionize, they can quickly and easily gain back everything they lost. It's a fairly optimistic plan, but, they gotta have hope.

One more little note for you. Don't be fooled by the term "Big 3" because it's really only the "Big 2" now. Daimler Chrysler is a German car company so if you want to define import by where the profit goes, even Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep are no longer American.

 

One more thing. Less competition + higher profit (or even same profit) + higher pay for labor = much higher prices for goods. So if you aren't careful, you COULD get this:

more money = more (high paying) jobs = higher prices for every good & service = same quality of living we have today or possibly even worse.

Chances are you'd also widen the gap between the classes as well. Your rich would get richer and your poor would get poorer. I understand your desire to simplify things, but there are a lot of things to consider. We haven't even discussed Japan & China artificially devaluing their currency against the dollar to keep their countries ultra competitive. There is a lot more going on than simple "Keep the imports out and we'll be fine" logic can fix.

BTW - Good discussion, though!

 

You need to run for president! I would give you a vote

 

Scott For President!
And charlie when you get into the navy you can't say anything negitive about the president in any way.

 

I didn't read all of the posts by a long shot. But quite a few. And IMO.....

Love him or not Bush needs to be gone. We are spending Millions EACH day to hang out in a country that wants the young men and women who are protecting them dead.
We have the highest oil prices because producers KNOWINGLY (of the cost increases) shut down refineries, and cut back production JUST TO DRIVE PRICES HIGHER. Nothing is done or said.

He let a foriegn group kill Thousands of innocent people and did ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!

He caused a TAX INCREASE for nearly EVERYONE. And only the wealthiest 30% never feels the effect.
FACT. If federal gov't taxes decrease STATE AND LOCAL gov't taxes WILL INCREASE. If not you tear the front end of your car up on horrible roads, you pay double for lincenses and registrations, your children go to shcools that are falling apart and have 40 kids per classroom.


There are two things AND ONLY TWO that I agree with. No gay marriages, and less agressive Gun Control laws.


People who think unions suck *** should go work for Amerikart. My first job out of school. 7.75 hour. Worked like a freakin' mule. Wage freeze meant NO RAISES. Shift switched 5 times in a 3 month period. Working conditions were nasty. That my friend is NON union work.

Your only chance to make decent money in a manufacturing setting is to work in a production bonus paying mobile home or RV factory. And the work done in those places is UN-FATHAMABLE to almost EVERYONE.

Flame away. I can ignore it.

 

Want to keep jobs here. DO NOT ALLOW ILLEGAL ALIANS TO WORK HERE. Like your president wants too.

In fact shut down the borders, or allow NO WORK VISAS.
If you are an american citizen you work. If not you don't. Until we have ZERO un-employment there should be NO jobs for those who are not american citizens.

If someone who works for $6/hour will do anything you tell them, and be happy with the $6 why not hire more? And as more and more take jobs wages only DECREASE!!!

And DO NOT give a freaking tax deduction or write off to companies for moving. If you leave the country you pay a tax penalty. A BIG ONE. NOT make the move cost a tax write off.

Your federal gov't has the ability to provide more and better jobs to AMERICANS by way of sensible (not big bussiness oriented) regulations.

Your vote counts. Vote not because of what party you profess to be. But because of the issues at hand.

 

I don't vote for one simple reason. You can't vote for the best eprson, you have to stay within the political party (i.e. democrat or republican). I have never voted before and never plan to until they re-vamp the voting system.

 

HaHa, Good one Steven! And as for you Scott, props to you sir, nice points and put very well. Although I do not agree with some of your facts and figures. Be them accurate or not. I do not know economics as well as some (you), but I do know that something is broken and needs to be fixed. In your opinion Scott, what needs to be done to pull this economy out of this "downward spiral" that seems to only worsen with time?

Charlie

 

Hell, if I had the answers I'd be a wealthy man! I only know it's more complicated than people seem to think.

If you are seriously interested in this stuff, there was a very good article in the paper today that seemed pretty neutral. It was in the Detroit Free Press and from reading it you'd think whoever wrote it read my posts! It's here: Off Shore Job Drain I highly suggest you read it if you want to understand things better. It's a long read but very though provoking.

As for the talk of running for President, I appreciate the vote of confidence. The problem is I'm only 32 and the minimum age is 35. Hold that thought until the next election and maybe I'll give it a go if I can get enough local support!

 

Maybe I missed it and someone else brought it up but what about the Executive Salary and Bonus situation here in the US.

We have some executives that are hauling in bigger and bigger salary, bonus & incentives than ever before. This while still making less and less and laying off people. Just think a small chunck of the combined top bonus dollars from Ford would keep the employees working instead of being laid off (same for GM, Chrysler, Cisco, CBS, NBC Etc.). Why is it that we continue to have these top executives racking in the dollars while at the same time laying people off. In other countries the difference between the lowest paid employee and top is 10-20X. Here in the states we have companies paying out at more than 100-200X lowest to highest and still laying people off. When will Executives realize the people they just laid off are now the people that can't afford their products.

My .02

Bill

 

Very good article! Thanks for the heads up on that one, I am going to fax it to my boss.

Charlie

 

CORPORATE GREED = the downfall of the american economy.
Do you really think that the CEO's give a rats *** about the people they just fired or layed off or the plants they moved over the border and overseas. If you answer yes to this then you have a problem and need to be checked out.
The more profit the company makes the bigger the bonus and the more pay the CEO's get. Does a CEO really need to make millions a year to live while people on the bottom of the ladder can do it on 20k? The problem isnt the workers its the CEO's and their henchmen.

 

Work smarter not harder.

work hard for the next 15 years use levrage to build assets so your money works for you, not you for your money.

How quickly we forget that 60 years ago we did not pay income tax. Build a company then write off every expense that you can prove was used for business. It's the only way you can make money in todays economy.

Why work for a company that makes seats when you can own it?

It never ceases to amaze me how badly schools teach the same mantra "go to school ,work hard, get good grades so you can get a job and work yourself to death."


If you go to a bank to ask for a loan to buy a company they never ask to see your grades. they want to see a financial plan.

By the way I'm currently at the same auto plant as KGresock infact I'm uesing his computer to write this.

UAW workers arent lazy just blind. And thats not an insult I was blind before I saw the light.

What started it for me? October 9th, 2001 I was laid-off from my job as an Aircraft Mechanic from Northwest airlines. I worked hard at my job and LOVED what I did. I still miss it everyday.

But I learned that at the end of the day it still says "Northwest" on the aircraft.

Will I put myself in that same position again? No I try to learn from my mistakes. Instead I plan to build assets that will pay me while I sleep.

I wont tell you how I'm going to do it. Everyone has their own way of doing things you have to figure out your own.

 

I've never worked on an assembly line no, but i have done manual labor and thats what prompted me to get my *** in gear and learn a skill that i could use to get me out of the blue collar workforce. I'd be all for union labor if they were worth what they make, but take a look at non UAW auto makers vs UAW auto makers... Don't even tell me chevrolet makes a better quality vehicle than toyota... I buy chevrolet because my discount makes it affordable otherwise i'd never even consider it.

I'm non union... I could afford that... And if it wasn't made by union labor... it wouldn't even cost $200,000.