Norm Peterson

There's a 35mm solid front bar available, I think from Suspension Techniques (it may be advertised as 1-3/8", but you can safely ignore the difference between 1.375" OD and 1.378" OD - the difference in stiffnesses would be less than 1%). I don't know if this is stiffer or softer than the 36mm tubular bar without knowing either the inside diameter or the wall thickness of the 36.

Several rear bars are available in metric diameters (OE sizes 19, 21, and 22 that I can think of right away for the 4th gen, and there's a 24mm for 3rd gens). Metric vs inch sizes may be an OE vs aftermarket thing. Just remember that 25.4 mm = 1 inch and convert everything to the units you prefer.

Depending on your use and the rest of your suspension tuning, it's entirely possible to have too much bar, particularly too much rear bar. If you make too much of the lateral load transfer happen at the rear (which a huge rear bar will do to you) you won't have much traction left for acceleration until after you've gotten the car mostly straightened out. Translation: you'll be slow and will probably remain overly cautious with the throttle even while driving a better-balanced car because you will have learned to not trust the rear to stay stuck.

I suggest you talk with Sam Strano, Jr. ( www.stranoparts.com ) as soon as he gets back from the SCCA Nationals in Topeka.

And see if you can find a copy of Fred Puhn's softcover book ("How to Make Your Car Handle").

Norm

MyShibbyZ28

I was actually wondering if a huge front bar would be bad. If i did get one that was huge like a 35mm how could the back not have traction if that also was huge? I'm pretty sure 3rd and 4th gens are interchangeable (if wrong correct me) so i might get the 24mm rear. I do want acceleration around the corner. Right now when i take a corner that says "25 MPH" i can take it at about 50, but the car rocks to the side and lifts up the inside, side of the car. I want to get rid of this rock from that side. I know shocks and springs are the biggy but money is even bigger here. So sway bars are my first step. Are there any other things that i should think/do when it comes to cornering suspension and acceleration?

Injuneer

The 3rd Gen and 4th Gens sway bars are the same in the back. The fronts are different.

You will also see an improved effectiveness of the sway bars by using firmer polyurethane bar bushings, and end link bushings.

MyShibbyZ28

Yeah, i definitely planned on getting the heavier duty end links and poly bushings. I put the "extreme duty" end links on my 83 and those bolts were huge. I think they were twice as big as the stock size. can't remember exactly, been so long since i've had it... Just out of curiousity, would a strut tower brace help any? thought it might help stiffen the front and stop flex there...

Norm Peterson

There might be one person that I know of who's using a rear bar bigger than 22 mm for auto-x; everybody else seems to be deciding between 19, 21, and Sam Strano's 22 mm hollow bar. And maybe a couple of other folks who don't really have an F-body rear suspension under their Camaros anymore (and require different spring/bar tuning). FWIW, the rear bar is the least effective of all the springs and bars at reducing roll, so it's really only good for tuning the understeer/oversteer balance to your liking.

I suspect your car needs shocks, and you might want to be less 'abrupt' with the steering inputs.

As far as the bars are concerned, do the front bar first and then see.

Norm

JakeRobb

I don't think this can be emphasized enough!

MyShibbyZ28

What exactly do you mean by abrupt? don't just go to the biggest size available?

I thought the rear was the more important one but now that i think of it, the front would keep it down, then transfer it to the back. So the front one first it is. Also this weekend, i took an off ramp at almost 65, pretty fun, but amazingly the car didn't lean at all, the tires were squealing half the way down. But on some other corners i take slower and virtually the same turning degree, and it'll lean. And it's the same side, right turn. hmmmm

JakeRobb

"Abrupt steering inputs" = "jerking the wheel"

The car will be able to corner harder if it you turn the wheel smoothly.

If you jerk the wheel hard enough to slide the car, it's normal for it to stay more level than it would be if you made the same turn without breaking traction. Newton's first law... every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you're cornering hard, but you have not lost traction, the outside tires are pushing hard against the turn. Part of the equal and opposite reaction is the car leaning against the force of the tires.

I don't think I explained that very well. Somebody want to do a free body diagram?

Norm got it right -- the front sway bar will adjust your body roll. Once you get that right, adjust the rear bar until you have the understeer/oversteer behavior you want.

-Jake

MyShibbyZ28

I don't jerk the wheel when i go around corners, i smoothly enter it like i would if i was going slow. There's also another thing i think we should probably clear up. My driving style. Now, it's not exactly horrible or bad, but it is probably borderline dangerous when it comes to corners. I don't speed and i accelerate "briskly" when merging. But corners, i like pushing the limits on my car. I find it way more fun trying to sit upright and steer while trying to push the car faster around the corner. That is why i want something that will give me complete traction to the road and maintain my stability. With that said...

Are the hollow front sway bars any good? I see them all the time on ebay that are 34-35-36mm's. or would i be better off with a solid 32mm?

ShibbyZ

Bayer-Z28

You think your car's loose now.... If you were to do it, one of them would have to be able to change length..

Too stiff of a rear means it will be really loose..... I think....

Norm Peterson

That wasn't obvious from the wording of your earlier description,

nor is there anything readily available to suggest how much experience you have behind the wheel. Try not to take any of this nonmechanical stuff the wrong way - I'm just including possible explanations for the "car rocking" that can't be fixed by throwing parts at the car.


Complete traction is a myth. You can make a car have more linear response up to higher limits, but there's a downside in that there's apt to be less warning when you do get up to that limit and are about to step over it.


For any given stiffness, a tubular sta-bar is larger in outside diameter and is lighter than a solid one. It will be less rigid than a solid bar of the same outside diameter. Right about here, the question of just what use you have planned (street only, auto-x, open-tracking, etc.) comes up. Your choice affects some of the compromises.

The best recommendation I can give at this point is to talk to Sam Strano after he gets back from Topeka.


Norm