Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
04-03-2005, 08:05 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 625
Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
I cant for the life of me get this bolt out. The bushing is worn so bad, I can freely spin the control arm left and right on the center. I've got the nut off, been beating the hell out of the bottom of the bolt with a sledge hammer for hours, even jacked up the car higher, put a jack stand under the bolt, then dropped the car on bolt. STILL Hasnt budged. This after being soaked in PB Blaster for an hour.
Anyone got any methods, tips, advice before I sawsaw the bolt off and buy another one?
http://home.comcast.net/~bsmith84/FLCA.Bushings-001.jpg
Anyone got any methods, tips, advice before I sawsaw the bolt off and buy another one?
http://home.comcast.net/~bsmith84/FLCA.Bushings-001.jpg
Last edited by Bawls; 04-03-2005 at 09:57 PM.
04-03-2005, 09:07 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly,PA
Posts: 2,365
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
did u have anyone move the arm around while you try to break the bolt loose? might help a little, but its hard to tell how stuck it really is. I know mine did take a little movement of the arm to have the bolt fall out. I just did all this last week in my car and replaced with Poly bushings, boy what a pain this whole job is!!!!!!
Are you replacing with stock rubber or POLY?
good luck, by the way that bushing really does look shot!
Are you replacing with stock rubber or POLY?
good luck, by the way that bushing really does look shot!
04-03-2005, 09:21 PM
#3
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 625
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by bow94z
did u have anyone move the arm around while you try to break the bolt loose? might help a little, but its hard to tell how stuck it really is. I know mine did take a little movement of the arm to have the bolt fall out. I just did all this last week in my car and replaced with Poly bushings, boy what a pain this whole job is!!!!!!
Are you replacing with stock rubber or POLY?
good luck, by the way that bushing really does look shot!
Are you replacing with stock rubber or POLY?
good luck, by the way that bushing really does look shot!
I'm replacing both sides with energy suspension poly bushings. While their out, im replacing the ball joints with MOOG's.
MOOG tie rod ends are on order too, but backordered through summit for a couple weeks.
Everything else has been cake to get off.
I'll probably end up grinding the bolt in half and buying a new one.
Thanks for the suggestion, wish it was that easy. Maybe if the bushing wasnt so worn, that would work.
04-03-2005, 09:25 PM
#4
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 576
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
FYI, my old post.
I am in the process of replacing most of my suspension with 1LE parts.
I was doing this in part due to the fact that two alignment shops could not align my car or tell me what was wrong.
My car is a 1995 Z286spd with 90 k miles. I assumed that the bushings were gone and that was causing my problem.
I have been checking every part as I took them off, and until yesterday I had not found a problem.
The bushings are in O.K. condition and tierods/balljoints were ok.
Upper shock nuts where rusted no flats or anything left. Just muddy red rust and flakes. Bottom of the shock tower on the inner fender was begining to rust also and will have to be repainted.
The surprise was the rear front lower control arm bolt. It was frozen beyond anything I had ever seen. After about four hours of pounding with sledge hammers, heating with a Mapp torch, generous aplications of PB Blaster, breaking off the locking tang, I finally got it out.
I am explaining this because the frozen bolt affects the adjustment of the lower control arm and will prevent proper alignment.
The nut came off easily so an aligment shop would think they had loosened the bolt and would attempt to adjust the arm.
The sneaky problem is that you have is the top of the bolt is still clamped. The head of the bolt has not loosened because it is trapped by the rust swaging the shaft of the bolt to the metal center of the bushing.
This means that the arm will not slide and half of your adjustment is defeated. The shop will not know why and in my case they will assume that they have reached the limit of the adjustment. The shop even said that their camber/ caster tool was bending. After removing the bolt I see why.
There is an easy way to check for this problem. If you can't get enough adjustment to do an alignment. Have the shop try to remove the front and rear bolts, one at a time. If they come out easily you are fine and have some other problem. Also if they can be easily tapped part way up and down, you are good. If not, consider your options because this was a very hard job. I had the springs out, so if you are checking with the springs in that may make the test impossible.
The front lower control arm rear bolt was rusted bady over it entire length where it fit into the center of the bushing. It showed no visable sign of this problem. The front bolts looked brand new and could easily be removed.
I think the heat and PB Blaster helped the most. Pounding didn't seem to help much until the bolt started moving. You may want to work on this over a few days and give the pentrating oil more time to work.
I have learned this the hard way and still have two more bolts to do.
I have now completed both sides and the second side had the same problem. Only took about 2 hours of heat and pounding to remove the front passenger side lower control arm rear bolt. The front bolt on both sides was plated and showed no corrosion. I wonder if GM had a batch of bad bolts?
I hope this post will save the owners of camaros time and money on suspension and alignment work.
Front LCA Bolts/Nuts
P/N: 10229835 front (2), 10164163 rear (2), 3537773 nuts (4).
I am in the process of replacing most of my suspension with 1LE parts.
I was doing this in part due to the fact that two alignment shops could not align my car or tell me what was wrong.
My car is a 1995 Z286spd with 90 k miles. I assumed that the bushings were gone and that was causing my problem.
I have been checking every part as I took them off, and until yesterday I had not found a problem.
The bushings are in O.K. condition and tierods/balljoints were ok.
Upper shock nuts where rusted no flats or anything left. Just muddy red rust and flakes. Bottom of the shock tower on the inner fender was begining to rust also and will have to be repainted.
The surprise was the rear front lower control arm bolt. It was frozen beyond anything I had ever seen. After about four hours of pounding with sledge hammers, heating with a Mapp torch, generous aplications of PB Blaster, breaking off the locking tang, I finally got it out.
I am explaining this because the frozen bolt affects the adjustment of the lower control arm and will prevent proper alignment.
The nut came off easily so an aligment shop would think they had loosened the bolt and would attempt to adjust the arm.
The sneaky problem is that you have is the top of the bolt is still clamped. The head of the bolt has not loosened because it is trapped by the rust swaging the shaft of the bolt to the metal center of the bushing.
This means that the arm will not slide and half of your adjustment is defeated. The shop will not know why and in my case they will assume that they have reached the limit of the adjustment. The shop even said that their camber/ caster tool was bending. After removing the bolt I see why.
There is an easy way to check for this problem. If you can't get enough adjustment to do an alignment. Have the shop try to remove the front and rear bolts, one at a time. If they come out easily you are fine and have some other problem. Also if they can be easily tapped part way up and down, you are good. If not, consider your options because this was a very hard job. I had the springs out, so if you are checking with the springs in that may make the test impossible.
The front lower control arm rear bolt was rusted bady over it entire length where it fit into the center of the bushing. It showed no visable sign of this problem. The front bolts looked brand new and could easily be removed.
I think the heat and PB Blaster helped the most. Pounding didn't seem to help much until the bolt started moving. You may want to work on this over a few days and give the pentrating oil more time to work.
I have learned this the hard way and still have two more bolts to do.
I have now completed both sides and the second side had the same problem. Only took about 2 hours of heat and pounding to remove the front passenger side lower control arm rear bolt. The front bolt on both sides was plated and showed no corrosion. I wonder if GM had a batch of bad bolts?
I hope this post will save the owners of camaros time and money on suspension and alignment work.
Front LCA Bolts/Nuts
P/N: 10229835 front (2), 10164163 rear (2), 3537773 nuts (4).
Last edited by Z28barnett; 04-03-2005 at 10:12 PM.
04-03-2005, 09:31 PM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly,PA
Posts: 2,365
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by Bawls
I can rotate the control arm around the center of the bushing, so moving it back and forth doesnt put anymore strain on the bolt. lol. I'm pretty sure the top of the bushing (metal part) has rusted itself to the bottom of the frame mount.
I'm replacing both sides with energy suspension poly bushings. While their out, im replacing the ball joints with MOOG's.
MOOG tie rod ends are on order too, but backordered through summit for a couple weeks.
Everything else has been cake to get off.
I'll probably end up grinding the bolt in half and buying a new one.
Thanks for the suggestion, wish it was that easy. Maybe if the bushing wasnt so worn, that would work.
I'm replacing both sides with energy suspension poly bushings. While their out, im replacing the ball joints with MOOG's.
MOOG tie rod ends are on order too, but backordered through summit for a couple weeks.
Everything else has been cake to get off.
I'll probably end up grinding the bolt in half and buying a new one.
Thanks for the suggestion, wish it was that easy. Maybe if the bushing wasnt so worn, that would work.
do the energy suspension poly's come with the casings?
04-03-2005, 09:36 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 625
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by bow94z
yea i also put moog ball joints on at the same time..the lowers were kinda hard to put back in place, just making sure they went in straight. The tops were as easy as changing oil in a car
do the energy suspension poly's come with the casings?
do the energy suspension poly's come with the casings?
04-03-2005, 09:46 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 625
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by Z28barnett
FYI, my old post.
I am in the process of replacing most of my suspension with 1LE parts.
I was doing this in part due to the fact that two alignment shops could not align my car or tell me what was wrong.
My car is a 1995 Z286spd with 90 k miles. I assumed that the bushings were gone and that was causing my problem.
I have been checking every part as I took them off, and until yesterday I had not found a problem.
The bushings are in O.K. condition and tierods/balljoints were ok.
Upper shock nuts where rusted no flats or anything left. Just muddy red rust and flakes. Bottom of the shock tower on the inner fender was begining to rust also and will have to be repainted.
The surprise was the rear front lower control arm bolt. It was frozen beyond anything I had ever seen. After about four hours of pounding with sledge hammers, heating with a Mapp torch, generous aplications of PB Blaster, breaking off the locking tang, I finally got it out.
I am explaining this because the frozen bolt affects the adjustment of the lower control arm and will prevent proper alignment.
The nut came off easily so an aligment shop would think they had loosened the bolt and would attempt to adjust the arm.
The sneaky problem is that you have is the top of the bolt is still clamped. The head of the bolt has not loosened because it is trapped by the rust swaging the shaft of the bolt to the metal center of the bushing.
This means that the arm will not slide and half of your adjustment is defeated. The shop will not know why and in my case they will assume that they have reached the limit of the adjustment. The shop even said that their camber/ caster tool was bending. After removing the bolt I see why.
There is an easy way to check for this problem. If you can't get enough adjustment to do an alignment. Have the shop try to remove the front and rear bolts, one at a time. If they come out easily you are fine and have some other problem. Also if they can be easily tapped part way up and down, you are good. If not, consider your options because this was a very hard job. I had the springs out, so if you are checking with the springs in that may make the test impossible.
The front lower control arm rear bolt was rusted bady over it entire length where it fit into the center of the bushing. It showed no visable sign of this problem. The front bolts looked brand new and could easily be removed.
I think the heat and PB Blaster helped the most. Pounding didn't seem to help much until the bolt started moving. You may want to work on this over a few days and give the pentrating oil more time to work.
I have learned this the hard way and still have two more bolts to do.
I have now completed both sides and the second side had the same problem. Only took about 2 hours of heat and pounding to remove the front passenger side lower control arm rear bolt. The front bolt on both sides was plated and showed no corrosion. I wonder if GM had a batch of bad bolts?
I hope this post will save the owners of camaros time and money on suspension and alignment work.
Front LCA Bolts/Nuts
P/N: 10229835 front (2), 10164163 rear (2), 353773 nuts (4).
I am in the process of replacing most of my suspension with 1LE parts.
I was doing this in part due to the fact that two alignment shops could not align my car or tell me what was wrong.
My car is a 1995 Z286spd with 90 k miles. I assumed that the bushings were gone and that was causing my problem.
I have been checking every part as I took them off, and until yesterday I had not found a problem.
The bushings are in O.K. condition and tierods/balljoints were ok.
Upper shock nuts where rusted no flats or anything left. Just muddy red rust and flakes. Bottom of the shock tower on the inner fender was begining to rust also and will have to be repainted.
The surprise was the rear front lower control arm bolt. It was frozen beyond anything I had ever seen. After about four hours of pounding with sledge hammers, heating with a Mapp torch, generous aplications of PB Blaster, breaking off the locking tang, I finally got it out.
I am explaining this because the frozen bolt affects the adjustment of the lower control arm and will prevent proper alignment.
The nut came off easily so an aligment shop would think they had loosened the bolt and would attempt to adjust the arm.
The sneaky problem is that you have is the top of the bolt is still clamped. The head of the bolt has not loosened because it is trapped by the rust swaging the shaft of the bolt to the metal center of the bushing.
This means that the arm will not slide and half of your adjustment is defeated. The shop will not know why and in my case they will assume that they have reached the limit of the adjustment. The shop even said that their camber/ caster tool was bending. After removing the bolt I see why.
There is an easy way to check for this problem. If you can't get enough adjustment to do an alignment. Have the shop try to remove the front and rear bolts, one at a time. If they come out easily you are fine and have some other problem. Also if they can be easily tapped part way up and down, you are good. If not, consider your options because this was a very hard job. I had the springs out, so if you are checking with the springs in that may make the test impossible.
The front lower control arm rear bolt was rusted bady over it entire length where it fit into the center of the bushing. It showed no visable sign of this problem. The front bolts looked brand new and could easily be removed.
I think the heat and PB Blaster helped the most. Pounding didn't seem to help much until the bolt started moving. You may want to work on this over a few days and give the pentrating oil more time to work.
I have learned this the hard way and still have two more bolts to do.
I have now completed both sides and the second side had the same problem. Only took about 2 hours of heat and pounding to remove the front passenger side lower control arm rear bolt. The front bolt on both sides was plated and showed no corrosion. I wonder if GM had a batch of bad bolts?
I hope this post will save the owners of camaros time and money on suspension and alignment work.
Front LCA Bolts/Nuts
P/N: 10229835 front (2), 10164163 rear (2), 353773 nuts (4).
Wow man, very informitive. Thank you. I'll keep at it. The car wont be done for at least another 2 weeks. So I have plenty of time to get these two bolts out.
I really dont have anyway of heating them up, so ill just keep at it with the PB Blaster and sledge hammer. Since I must reuse the castings for the poly bushings, I really cant go at it the "Brute force and stupidity" route I was hoping.
04-03-2005, 10:11 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 576
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by Bawls
GMPD isnt showing a part for that number.
I left out a (7).
Try 3537773
GM PART # 3537773
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 5 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $2.18
OUR PRICE: $1.24
DESCRIPTION: NUT ASM-C
Also note: Poly will fail in the rear location. Fraxx had some pictures of split rear lower Control arm bushings in poly.
http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?a...5&hl=bushings&
I would use 1LE or Moog bushings.
Z28
Last edited by Z28barnett; 04-03-2005 at 10:15 PM.
04-03-2005, 10:26 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 576
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
*Note: prices are out of date
1LE Front Lower Control Arm Front Bushing (GM p/n 22145392) $15.44
1LE Front Lower Control Arm Rear Bushing (GM p/n 22156434) $35.77
1LE Rear Lower Control Arm Bushings (GM p/n 10164152) (4 required, bushing only) $8.40
* These are solid rubber and not cutaway for soft ride like the stock Z28 bushings. I would expect them to be a pain to install.
* I would just order the arms, save a major hassle. Unless your ride is very low miles.
1LE Front Left Lower Control Arm (GM p/n 52367658) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $112.72
1LE Front Right Lower Control Arm (GM p/n 52367659) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $112.72
1LE Front Left Upper Control Arm (GM p/n 22204674) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $113.28
1LE Front Right Upper Control Arm (GM p/n 22204675) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $113.28
*I ordered these parts and got the correct parts. They have a blue paint dot on them and no cut away areas on the bushings.
1LE Front Lower Control Arm Front Bushing (GM p/n 22145392) $15.44
1LE Front Lower Control Arm Rear Bushing (GM p/n 22156434) $35.77
1LE Rear Lower Control Arm Bushings (GM p/n 10164152) (4 required, bushing only) $8.40
* These are solid rubber and not cutaway for soft ride like the stock Z28 bushings. I would expect them to be a pain to install.
* I would just order the arms, save a major hassle. Unless your ride is very low miles.
1LE Front Left Lower Control Arm (GM p/n 52367658) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $112.72
1LE Front Right Lower Control Arm (GM p/n 52367659) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $112.72
1LE Front Left Upper Control Arm (GM p/n 22204674) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $113.28
1LE Front Right Upper Control Arm (GM p/n 22204675) (arm complete with bushings and Ball Joint) $113.28
*I ordered these parts and got the correct parts. They have a blue paint dot on them and no cut away areas on the bushings.
04-03-2005, 10:28 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 625
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
Originally Posted by Z28barnett
Sorry,
I left out a (7).
Try 3537773
GM PART # 3537773
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 5 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $2.18
OUR PRICE: $1.24
DESCRIPTION: NUT ASM-C
Also note: Poly will fail in the rear location. Fraxx had some pictures of split rear lower Control arm bushings in poly.
http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?a...5&hl=bushings&
I would use 1LE or Moog bushings.
Z28
I left out a (7).
Try 3537773
GM PART # 3537773
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 5 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $2.18
OUR PRICE: $1.24
DESCRIPTION: NUT ASM-C
Also note: Poly will fail in the rear location. Fraxx had some pictures of split rear lower Control arm bushings in poly.
http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?a...5&hl=bushings&
I would use 1LE or Moog bushings.
Z28
Oh nice! I think I'll put it all back together and just order the MOOG setup then.
Can you order just the rear 2 bushings, then just the lower front two energy suspension bushings?
Thanks
04-06-2005, 01:08 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1
Re: Front Lower Control Arm - Rear bushing Bolt - FROZE
I started this same job at the beginning of this winter but abandoned the LCA and attached ball joint for the same reason. I won't start until it gets warm here again(MA, bites).
I ordered the Energy Suspension kit from Summit and took my time over a week, doing one corner a night after work. Everything else went smooth except for the two(D/P side) bolts in question. I too also jacked up the car on the bolt, (with the nut halfway on to protect the threads) then proceeded to jump up and down on the hood to add pressure and weight. Nothing. I thought the pressure of cornering and heavy breaking would break it loose so I drove around without the nuts installed for a few days. It still hasn't moved!
My last resort is to break out the Dremel and cut off both sides of the bolt, grind it down so it's beneath the mounting bracket, and slide the whole mass out. A new bolt from the dealer was $18 and change.
The only thing that worries me is removing the lower ball joint, does it just slide out? I have a 25K Newton (5000lb) load frame at work, but will that be enough to press it out? And, last question, it(ball joint) just slides out, straight down, correct?
'93 Z28, 166K, 147mph, I beat the crap out of this car.
I ordered the Energy Suspension kit from Summit and took my time over a week, doing one corner a night after work. Everything else went smooth except for the two(D/P side) bolts in question. I too also jacked up the car on the bolt, (with the nut halfway on to protect the threads) then proceeded to jump up and down on the hood to add pressure and weight. Nothing. I thought the pressure of cornering and heavy breaking would break it loose so I drove around without the nuts installed for a few days. It still hasn't moved!
My last resort is to break out the Dremel and cut off both sides of the bolt, grind it down so it's beneath the mounting bracket, and slide the whole mass out. A new bolt from the dealer was $18 and change.
The only thing that worries me is removing the lower ball joint, does it just slide out? I have a 25K Newton (5000lb) load frame at work, but will that be enough to press it out? And, last question, it(ball joint) just slides out, straight down, correct?
'93 Z28, 166K, 147mph, I beat the crap out of this car.
