wdtiger

The point though, is that QA1s are not meant for handling. Can they do it? Sure they can, but there's better options out there if corner carving is your thing. It's just about picking the right weapon for the job.

slomarao

i never tried to say that they were meant for handling. I said my buddies car still handles pretty good with a drag style shock.

Sam Strano

I'm not wanting to get mixed up in the middle of this. I only wanted to say that the idea that something "handles pretty good" is just that, and idea and it varies a lot by person, and experience. If you only drove a city bus, a stock F-body would feel like an F1 car in comparison. You see it all the time when someone with say Sportlines tells you how great the car is, then you see someone else with them hate the result. Are they both right? Both wrong? Or is their background for comparison different? It's the comparison.

Greed4Speed

More than one person's QA1's leak. Its a common problem.

Bilsteins are mismatched according to Sam who also says the QA1's are junk who you are obviously only wanting to listen to the part of what he says. It is only common sense that if you use him as a knowlegable reference you can either take all of what he says as fact or none.

Like Sam pointed out. It is the comparison. I'm not competeing like he is. I'm perfectly happy with my combo for daily driving and the occasional track trip. It suits my purposes fine and I didn't have to spend the extra ~$300 for Koni's to be happy and acheive good results. The only thing I feel a need to improve now is body roll and I'm sure Sam will agree that swaybars are the cure for that.

slomarao

No, not just according to sam. Other people and companies will tell you that too. Bilsteins are meant for stock springs. And if you can dig up anyone who knows more about the f body suspension than Sam spit it out.
Next, you dont have to listen to everything he says. To listen to everything any one person says would be completely stupid. I have my own thoughts, and i use his judgement and experience also. You may want to take a look at what you refer to as "common sense" because what your saying is definately not it.

Sam Strano

And there was a time before I pointed it out that nobody felt the Bilstein's weren't up to the task, and that was back when their catalog actually said HD's were not suitable for lowering springs (I noticed they removed that line in the latest catalog). This was also before they took rebound damping away from the rear, added compression (which is what DeCarbon's are like), and while they added rebound in front, they took away compression which I wouldn't have done.

Not everyone knew that was the case, and if you search old threads you'd find that to be the case. Might not be so humble, but it was me who pointed this out. It was me who offered Revalves to up the damping to a level needed for better performance. I still sold HD's because they had a use--as great quality replacement shocks that were valved like the OE's should have been for normal driving. But that was then, this is now.

I would agree that you need to listen to options. However, that doesn't mean that all opinions are valid. Everyone should read opinions and weigh them, but need to assess the details (if they are available, and they are often not).

Greed4Speed

Just like an ORY is for "Off road use only." I guarantee they put that in for liability purposes. Mine are also SLP revalved which were designed for shorter springs.

Can I dig up people who knows about f-body suspensions..... Well, I talked to a couple of guys locally that build 4th gens for track duty and race. Ya, I think they know their 4th gen suspensions. I've also asked trackbird questions on occasion. What you need to realize is that there is usually more than one way to an automotive goal. Just like if you go to 5 different shops and want a 10 sec car built, you're going to get at least 5 differnt options to get there. Sure Sam is definately the most vocal about suspensions, but does that mean his methods are the only ones? No. Does that mean they're the right/only way? No. Sure he is suggesting top of the line equipment, but do we all need top of the line to be happy? No. I understand there are compromises. Saying mine set up is mismatched is like telling someone who is making 420 hp on a small cam and budget heads that their set up is mismatched and they could have made more power with a bigger cam and some ported trickflows. Well no joke! Really??? And they'd have spent twice as much doing so. Does that mean the set up is wrong? No.

Now look at it this way. Someone pays ~$1000 for top of the line parts, most will be happy because it is quality stuff. Now here is my question. How many of them would have been just as happy with a little lesser suspension for less than half the cost? I'd say at least half and that is being concervative. How many of the people who run Konis and Sam's springs even run tires that they'll see the full benefit from the set up? Probably very few which would prove that a "lesser" suspension would suffice for them. I did my homework and talked to guys at meets and online running Sam's stuff or just Konis w/other springs. Not all are happy. Most are though. The unhappy ones didn't like how even small imperfections were felt. Nothing wrong with the equipment. It handles good. But in these instances are Konis up the right shocks? Probably not if they're not happy. Does that mean Sam was wrong? I don't think so and I'm not saying he is. I'm just saying people expect different things and to say one set up is the answer to all is not logical.

If you are using someone as a reference in an arguement for one concept and you go and contradict them in the same argument, then you just opened yourself up to having your arguement picked apart. You're just pissed that you're arguement about the QA1's flopped so now you want to attack my set up that I never said was the best only that it handled and rode better than stock. Can you prove that it doesn't? No. Argument ended.

Sam Strano

I have to tell you that it's news to me there are many out there that aren't happy. And given the way forums work, I'd think we'd see that. I'd ask you refain from saying such things until or unless you can backup those statements. I really don't need the hassle of trying to debate heresay. I'm sure there is someone out there that's not "happy" with me, I pissed a guy off just a few days ago because I woudln't tell him what he wanted to hear. You can't please everyone all the time, but I think I do a damned good job pleasing most of the people most of the time, and I think the proof in the fact they take the time to post things about me or my work for them.

Further, I'd be curious to know just what "not all are happy" means anyway. I can tell you that anyone picking QA1's over Koni's for reasons of quality, or damping performance, or longevity is smoking some really good weed.

Back to your regularly scheduled infighting.

Sam Strano

And I wanted to add one more thing. SLP shocks are "valved" for SLP springs. Though that's funny in so far as they never did change the rear valvings in the back from regular HD's, and took compression damping from the front, which has nothing to do with spring rate anyway, but unsprung weight. And never mind the fact that their springs max at about 450, which means even if you thought they were ideal they weren't meant for say 600's (and there are springs that get up there).

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You are defending your position when others tell you it's not "right". But you are doing it based on what you feel which is no more right or wrong than those on the other side of the fence.

Yes, I think your setup is far from right. You might be happy, and that's fine. Moreover, I'll explain why I don't think it's right, which most can't. But in the end, if you're happy you're happy. That's what matters I guess.

slomarao

your right green, me or sam dont know what were talking about.
I did like the long list of names you provided, they're all just as reputable as sam. Should of just listened to you in the first place.

Greed4Speed

Sam knows what he is talking about as far as his theories. What I'm getting at is that there are other theories out there for street cars. There sure are a lot of people running Bilsteins on aftermarket springs that are happy with them. If there is ony one way then we're all wrong eventhough our cars handle well.

Ya, I could drop names, but it isn't necessary. You won't listen anyway. If you read GMHTP you've read about one guy.

I'm sure you have as much experience and knowlege as the guys I've talked to Slowmaro. Great knowlege like the LT1 weighing so much more then the LS1 Camaros, and the tires not squealing around a curve means the shocks are good, and the SS has different shocks and springs.... Ya, your really one to questions someone else's knowlege here.

Johnnynsac

Sam, I thought you sold revalved Bilsteins??

I bought some revalves from you about 3 years ago and the car handles very good. I'm a bit confused.

I was going to recommend the revalved Bilsteins to CMking but your saying you don't sell Bilsteins anymore because of there new changes made to there shocks?? I apoligize if I missed something somewhere but I thought the revalves were almost in comparison to Koni's.

Sam Strano

Bilstein's have become as hard to find as hen's teeth. Hard to revalve them when I haven't been able to get any since March 2007. Bear in mind that Revalves were never to be viewed as 100% equal replacement to a Koni, but rather a cost effective damper that could actually deal with a higher rate set of springs. Still no ability to tweak the damping as you see fit, I'd simply talk to you about the wants and needs and apply a valving I though would suit folks all around the best.

cmking26

Ok I finally bought all the shocks and an adj panhard all I need now is the relocation brackets for lca's. My question is Do I really need the lca relocation brackets and if so are bolt in ok or should they be weld in? The car is driven only on nice days and I would like the cornering over straight line feel. Soooo do I need the relocation brackets?