Silver

Do you get vibration? Noise? Rougher feeling shifts?

Just trying to judge whether or not I should go with or without bushings for my stock daily driver that I'm about to put a 3.42 rearend in (A4).

I like feeling the car but don't want to feel like I'm riding in a dump truck.

teke184

i've got the BMR poly/rubber combo on my LCAs and noticed ZERO increase in noise.

but they really helped traction...ie...less wheel hop

i've even got poly torque arm bushing, trans mount, motor mount and phb...and i noticed a minimal increase in noise...

spartyon

For a daily driver, poly/rubber bushings are the way to go. Rod ends tend to wear out, especially on a daily driven car. When they wear they start to make a clunking noise that is really irritating when you drive everyday.

Dave K

I've got all rod ends on the front of my 96... you definitely get more noise and vibration, but it's not at all annoying for periodic use (not a daily driver). I would worry more about longevity of rod ends on a daily driver than I would noise... it's a lot of work pulling your suspension every year or two to replace rod ends.

Silver

Ok. I ordered up some Lakewood lca's with poly bushings.

I didn't think about the rod end units wearing out like that. Sheesh. Glad I didn't go with them.

Thanks for all the comments.

Dave K

Well... I'm not a big fan of poly/poly LCA's, personally I'd rather have rod ends. Poly binds in rotation, not good for lca use.

spartyon

With proper lubrication that should not be a problem with poly bushings.

Dave K

it's not a lube issue... it's a compliance issue. Rear LCA don't just need to rotate about a centerline through the mounting bolts (which occurs when you hit a bump and your suspension deflects evenly), they also need to rotate orthogonal to the first rotation about a centerline through the middle of the LCA itself (which occurs when you go around a corner and the body leans). This second type of rotation is controlled by a combination of shocks/springs and anti-rollbar. Your LCA's should have no influence on it yet with poly bushings you have a high durometer material that resists that rotation (there's a video out there I saw a couple years back that showed it). Worst case it could cause excessive suspension bind in corning and loss of traction. Rubber bushings are better simply because they're softer, allowing that rotation with minimum bind. Rod ends are the optimal solution for this particular problem because they allow free rotation.

One alternative is to go with Rubber/Poly... rubber on one end of the LCA to allow rotation, poly on the other to improve stiffness.

spartyon

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the vertical movement of the suspension. Even though the rotational movement exists, it shouldn't be any kind of problem unless its in a road racing type of environment. Yes rod ends are better from a performance standard but are also pricey when changing every year, or sometimes more, on a daily driver.

Dave K

That may be the case... but I've not seen any information to establish it. For me... when information is lacking I tend to err on the safe side. It doesn't make sense (to me) to spend extra money to go with stiffer bushings to improve handling performance when there's a known effect acting to reduce performance that may make your car dangerous in hard corning.

Here's a good writeup on the issues surrounding poly bushings in LCA applications, it's just not a good idea. If ultimate stiffness is the goal go rod end and change them when needed, heck with LCA's it's not even that much work (and good quality rod ends will supposedly last a fair amount of time, although I've only had them for 3 months so I can't verify that).

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1...hings.htm#Bind

97FormulaWS-6

As for longevity of Rod ends...

I put aluminum LCAs, and PHRs on my car 2 seasons ago, installed seals-it brand rod-end seals. This year when I completely disassembled the car the rod ends are still in great shape; no play, no looseness, etc; this after ~20K miles. The seals are almost dead and will be replaced, but the rod ends themselves are fine.

The ride is rougher, and makes a little more noise, but the handling/performance increase is great.

To sum my experience up; rod ends are great on the street if you can stand the stiffer/rougher ride, and install seals.

Dave K

How much did the seals-it ends cost? I've got QA1's and while they have a good rep for rod ends, they're not sealed (just teflon lined) so I expect after a couple years of (non-daily) use they'll be shot.

97FormulaWS-6

I'm using the QA1 Endura whatever rod ends; the expensive ones.

The seals-it seals are dirt cheap, like $15 for 6 of them or something like that. I think they are even cheaper than that.

They've kept my QA1s clean and dirt free so far; I have great recommendations for these. They are typically used on dirt-track cars to keep the dirt out of the rod ends in those suspensions, so on the road they work great.

97FormulaWS-6

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...2&autoview=sku

even summit racing carries them

Dave K

Thanks! Only downside is I'll need to disassemble the whole front suspension to put them in (it's all rod-end). I may run this set of rod ends naked and then in a year or two when they're worn out install these with the next set.