BlackLT1_TX

I am not a moron, and I know why most people advise against removing ABS. I am doing it for a weight reduction, not to mention that this car will see very little street time, and very very little (read: never) in the rain.

I can see the huge ABS control blocks (looks like a castle in my engine bay). I figure taking them out wont be very hard. The problem will be what to do with the brake lines afterwards. This car was a ABS/TCS car so I have 2 front lines and 2 rear lines. Do they make a Y adaptor for this, to go from the two lines on the master cyl to the four lines that are near the air box?

Thanks in advance,
James

Z28Nut

I am going to be doing this in the future for same reasons but haven't researched it fully yet. I am going to use an adjustable proportioning valve to be able to balance the front to rear braking. Every car I've worked on without ABS had one of these, only the Toyota truck one was mounted over the rear axle and was adjusted by a link to the axle. Hard braking, nose dives, rear lifts and the adjuster reduces pressure to rear brakes to prevent lock-up. The rest of them were non-adjustable mounted near the master cylinder. Try a search for one of these valves, you hopefully will find the info you need.

#7

You might want to get this moved over to 'suspension,chassis and brakes' might get some more help there.

I am going to do this to my car real soon,non-TCS car, I really dont know enough to advise ya on it either sorry. But wanted to pass on where I am going to get the block to replace the ABS unit. E-mail :Billingsley racing BRIsales@aol.com address e-mail to Amber. They are a drag race street parts place. They may be able to help you complete they project

T.

ShawnMacAnanny

I think you need to get connectors for the lines and such. I'm actually looking to do this too. It's on my daily driver but i hate ABS. I had mine on my firebird malfunction and even under light braking with Z rated 245s all the way around at about 50mph, just slowing down at a stop light, the ABS kicked on and i lost all control of hte brake pedal. I had to jerk the wheel into the turn lane and use the e-brake to slow my car down. It was insane.

JG94Z

I was talking with steve from SJM Manufacturing the other day and they mentioned they were making a bolt on kit for this sort of thing. It doesn't use a block but replaces lines. Sounds promising.

TimbrSS

Billingsley sells an ABS delete block. (bottom of page)

Bone Daddy

I can easily type up a basic walkthrough (w/out pics) if anyone is interested. I've done this swap more than a few times, and walked a few through it over AIM. You do not need a regulator though, like you would think.

I did it because I hate ABS, it's an abomination in my eyes.

JG94Z

I'd have to disagree with the comment of not needing a proportioning valve.

I just saw SJM's setup on his site, it looks pretty nice. It does have a proportioning valve. There wasn't any pricing on it though so I'm not sure how much the setup costs.

A proportioning valve enables you to correct pressures between front and rear tires....adjustments IS necessary with different tire combonations. Without it, you will have a greater chance of locking your rears before your fronts since your rear end is lighter.

This is something that you don't want to occur as anyone knows, when a rear end locks up, you can go into a spin easily. Originally, your stock setup with ABS adjusted pressures so that this does not occur. It is self adjusting so different tire combos will still work. The reluctor gear sends pulses to the abs computer which tells the modulator to adjust pressures accordingly.

When you remove your ABS your removing any pressure adjustments through the ABS modulator. There is no way that the pressures for the rotors which would be 50/50 front/rear would be accurate for the car. This problem may not be as pronounced on dry roads, but take it on wet roads and you may soon find out which tires will lock first.

For the small price of what a proportioning valve costs, it is something that should not be excluded when removing your ABS.

On another note, anyone redoing their lines should never use compression fittings, use only either bubble flare or double flare...I've seen a few guys using compression brake fittings though you'll never see these used in automobile applications, they are generally used in air brake setups, not fluid.

Bone Daddy

I don't use one, nor do any of the cars that I've helped do the mod for, and 0 problems so far. You simply re-route the lines to the Master Cylinder, and your good to go. (contact Dreamer1Q for confirmation) Nor has anyone said anything about compression fittings in the thread. Of course if anyone would feel safer running one, then by all means they should go for it.

But hey, that's a nice diatribe you got there.

JG94Z

If you thought my comment was a waste of time, then stop reading now. It's a shame your vocabulary appears larger then your thought process. Obviously, you prefer to spread non-intellectual thoughts with no basis other then stating it works. Following someone else's setup doesn't show your setup is correct...

...A proportioning valve is meant to dial in brake pressure. MOST vehicle loads are not equally distributed from front to rear. Traction bias is not equal either. Different tire setups i.e. skinnies and slicks, wide fronts wide rear etc will alter the pressures necessary. The valve optimizes your braking capabilities.

I'm merely stating to the others that the way yours is setup is not designed correctly. If others choose to follow your improper setup, then by all means they have that right. Does yours work; sure it stops your car...if your happy move on. The price of a 40.00 item must be out of your budget obviously.

There is no way a car line pressures are correct by connecting up the lines directly. If your tires were wet, your rears would most likely lock up before your fronts. A proper setup is such that all tire lock equally so your car stops in a controlled mannor...

...having rears lock up first can be very bad as the car can easily go into a spin...braking on a wet surface while turning, with rear tires locking first, will send you in a spin very easily.

No one mentioned compression fittings, your correct, I mentioned it as it is something I've seen folks use... ...I suppose since others used compression fittings with 0 problems, it must be ok if I use your theory.

Bone Daddy

Er, don't know how you missed the "Of course, if anyone would feel safer running one, then by all means they should go for it" part of my post, but I digress. Listen, I'm not being combative here, but apparantly you are. I highly suspect you have never done this conversion/mod and have nothing more than an old issue of consumer reports, and hazmat sheet on DOT3 backing you up. I'm joking of course, but if your going to go into long diatribes about how one man is trieng to spread his evil seed throughout a INTERNET forum, then you make yourself open.

I was going to include the valve in the write-up, and give people a choice. I'm not spreading evil, or misinformation, or the blood of innocents here, I made a post that would have went like this, had you not stuck your overzealous nose in.

OP: So, ABS how to, eh? No valve? Explain PLZ!
ME: Explains w/out valve and with valve methods
OP: Hmm, thanks. I'm going to think about it, and read up on this.
ME:

Now that you've entered the picture, it went like this:

OP: So, ABS how to, eh? No valve? Explain PLZ
ME: *tries to expl...
YOU: OMGBONEDADDY OMG BADINFO SAFETY RUNWITHSCISSORS=NO OMG I DISAGREE HE IS EVILOMG SAFETYNOT THAT OHSWEETNOTSAFE JESUS!?!

Now, see what you've done?

Next time, get a grip.. and go write your thesis papers elsewhere. The original poster wouldn't have immediately went out into his driveway and done this, he would have gotten more info, and asked many more questions. THEN he would have decided what to do. Also, take a joke.. it might loosen the stick.

RE AND CHERYL

Your an idiot and JG94Z is completely right. A proportioning valve is a necessity, not an option. Without it your rear brakes will lock LLLOOONNNGGG before the fronts and any benifits you feel you gained by removing that 10 pounds from your car will be erased when your car ends up in the ditch.

I love this and other sites for the vast amount of knowledge that is present and the help afforded you. But there are always people out there giving out bad advise based on little to no knowledge.

No car manufacturer has EVER built a 4 wheel disc brake vehicle without a proportioning valve. The only brake setup that I am aware of that can function SAFELY without one is a 4 wheel brum brake car.

By the way, while your taking weight off your car. Remove the brake booster. If you use a properly sized master cylinder with the right pedal geometry, you will hradly notice it's gone.

Bone Daddy

There's one in the master cylinder for this purpose, einstein. Dreamer1Q (established member for years) and countless others on this board are running without one. Last time I checked, they weren't coreening to their deaths off a cliff, nor am I. I have been running without one for almost a year now.

With a user name like that, I'd watch who I called an idiot.

And again, Einstein, I said that it was the OP's choice to install one or not, I'm just trieng to give options. Just because you spout off like your friend here, doesn't mean YOUR opinion is the absolute truth. Until you post and tell me #1 That you desighn braking systems for a living, or #2 tell me you've not ran a valve and had a major problem, your opinion means jack to me. But I'm not going to call you names, that's the difference. I'd lay money you haven't even bled your ABS system, let-alone done this mod.


[edit]
I apologise to the great dead man, Albert Einstein.
[edit 2]
Did I spell coreening correctly?

JG94Z

I’ll take my “diatribe” and see you one....here's another for you.

..lost cause I suppose. You can continue to be close minded and keep your blinders on. I understand what you are running works. The key is it only "works". I did mention it. Your approach can certainly be set up more efficient and safe.

A brake system is a brake system, it doesn't matter what car it goes on. The principles are the same. Some setups (not just F-bodies) may show noticeable braking deficiencies (opportunities) then others. What may work ok with one tire combination may work poor with another tire combination. This is why adjustability is necessary.

An easy way to quickly make adjustments is to perform controlled stops on a slippery surface where you or an observer notes which tires are locking first. Dry surfaces may prove to be more difficult to show how you’re pressure bias needs adjusted. Especially if you’re unsure of what you’re looking/feeling for.

Some may have read folks using a valve didn’t notice a difference. Going from one extreme to the other should show how adjusting pressures effects stopping distance and braking characteristics. Once again, a good time to adjust this is on a slippery surface as locking fronts or rears will be pronounced. This is may help if you’re not astute or tuned in on how the car adjusts w/pressure changes i.e. nose diving etc.

It doesn't matter what vehicle is used, what master cylinder, diameter lines, rotors/pads etc...EVERY system needs biased to function correctly and most EFFECIENTLY. Notice how I highlighted “efficiently”. These among others are variables will effect pressure bias your brake system. Rest assured it will need biased. It is highly unlikely that you will have it correct at the get go....

...biasing brakes IS the principle behind ABS in the first place. The ABS computer under wheel locking conditions sends a reference signal to the modulator removing pressures from the wheel in question. This is performed so stops are controlled and even. Once your tires slip, stopping distances are greatly increased and create an uncontrollable situation… …standard kinematics and physics, you may try reading up on it instead of studying the dictionary.

I think the readers can come to a conclusion to either save 40.00 leaving your setup less efficient and a safety hazard or spend the small amount of money and set your brake setup correctly. Bias problems are significantly pronounced with different tire combinations i.e. drag setup vs. road race setup. Obviously you have made your decision, stick with it and shut up.

O and btw, if you think my background is lackluster, I think you need to understand all of us aren't youngsters and have an extensive educational background. Throwing my credentials around doesn't mean one bit nor is it necessary.

Have a nice day.

RE AND CHERYL

Once agian, you are wrong. There is not a proportioning valve in the stock mastercylinder installed on any of our cars. It is true that GM made master cylinders for other cars with them installed, You could use them as they will mount up to the master cylinder. But I wouldn't as they aren't biased correctly for the Camaro.

What about your user name. My user name reflects the fact that my wife is active in my hobby.

I don't design braking systems but have worked on them for the better part of 20 years.

I actually removed the proportioning valve from my car (it's inside the block on top of the ABS unit) to install an adjustable unit, it was necessary because of the brake upgrades I did changed the brake bias.

I see no reason to do this mod The ABS cycles about 60 times a second and can stop the car in a shorter distance than you, me, or anyone else could.