That Camaro Guy

Allright,

I've been working my gnards off the last three months and haven't been able to post much. In what little spare time I've had I've been researching the next step for my Z and I'm asking for some input/advice/critiquing of what I've decided thus far.

Background info: I've had my 94Z since 2001 (bought it in high school) and never touched the suspension. Motor, tranny, and brakes have all been upgraded but my ride quality and traction blows. I think the next step for the car should be suspension upgrades in two stages, since I don't want to shell out the cash for both right now.

The car has close to 200k on the chasis, with less than 10k on the motor, tranny, and rear. The car is daily driven in non snowy months, sees some 1/4 mile times(for fun), and will never see an autoX track. My goal is straight line performance without making on/off ramps dangerous, and I don't care about road noise and the like.

Stage 1: Operation ride-not-suck

My ride quality is that of a 200k mile 15 year old car with original suspension, this needs to be addressed first. My thoughts were replacing every bushing with a urethane kit that can be found for $150-$200. The next thing to go is my shocks and springs. I'm thinking single adjustable QA-1 coilovers in the front and rear. QA-1s seem to be the most highly recommended drag shock. The reason I'd like to go coil overs in the rear is I want my stock springs gone, they are too worn and I can't find a setup that will replace my stock springs and use the QA-1 SA rear shocks and save more than $100. So why not go full coilover as a package designed to work together? Spring rate I'm thinking either 275 or 300lb. The car is full weight with AC, PS, full interior, etc.

Yes, bushings... coilovers, and chassis stiffening. I have long tube headers, custom ypipe, and a hooker cat back. With this exhaust I was thinking tubular 2 point SFCs would fit nicely, make my ride quality a little nicer, and not bend things later. With the addition of ride height control, an adjustable PHB should be on that list too I'm guessing, since the car will no doubly be lower than stock. Thoughts?


Stage 2: Operation traction-more

After stage one is complete I'll be taking care of traction. This consists of LCA relocation brackets (bolt in or weld, either or) and adjustable LCAs. I don't know if I need the ball joints on both, or just one end. Any input on that matter would be appreciated.

Torque arm... Tunnel mount? Tail mount? I don't care about road noise, just straight line performance while being safe to drive every day in warmer months. Advice appreciated on this one since I'm no suspension guru. STB will be added to stage 2 to enhance chassis stiffening.

I'm not concerned with sway bars or a traction bar at this point. I'm not competing in any events nor do I intend on doing so. This is my fun car and I use the crap out of it when the weather is nice. I'd like to keep stage 1 around $1,200 and stage 2 around $1,000 EXCLUDING INSTALL. Yes, I'm lame and work to much to mess with installing these parts. I've been working 60+ hours a week and cannot show up to work tired since I'm a professional pilot.

Should I move anything from stage 2 to 1, or vice versa? Is there anything I'm neglecting? Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Injuneer and Strano, I'm looking at you

Injuneer

Thoughts:

While the Energy Suspension "Master Set" has all the poly bushing you need, if you are getting new LCA's, panhard rod, torque arm, etc. you will not need those bushings in the Master Set. I did the full Master Set, and the only pieces still left in the car are the tranny mount and the front upper and lower A-arm bushings. Everything else has been replaced with the upgraded parts, or deleted (front sway bar). Just buy the parts you need.

Don't worry about the rear springs. Some people replace the V8 rear springs with V6 springs, or in one case a buddy of mine put my coupe springs in his convertible (1.30 60-fts). How those spring rates compare is an unknown to me, but I don't think your rear springs are worn out, and I don't think they will hurt straight line peformance. Full coil-over for the rear is "nice", but not critical. Again, the convertible I mentioned used single adjustable QA1's and my coupe springs in the rear.

For the front, the AFCO double adjustable shocks seem to perform better than the QA1's. Thunder Racing sells them. QA1 now has a double adjustable for the 4th Gen, but its $140 more than a single adjustable. Strange double adjustables are about $100 less, and are available through Spohn Performance. I have not used, or seen anyone using the QA1 or Strange double adjustables though. I have the QA1 single, with the part # OED-315-S spring. That was recommended by Thunder Racing. I think a 275# spring would be better for a car that is 3,000# or less, but I do not even remember what mine are rated at.

If you opt for the coil over rear setup, the adjustable panhard rod is a good idea. I would recommend double adjustable.

SFC's are a good first step. Don't get hung up on round tube vs. square tube. The manufacturer can make either shape as strong as required by selecting the tubing dimension and wall thickness.

I'll cover stage 2 when I have more time. Hopefully, someone else will help as well.

Bud M

I don't think Sam Strano spends any time here any more, you'll have to contact him.

My 2 cents: Replacing all bushings with poly is going to result in a really squeaky ride that will likely drive you nuts in a street driven car. Even though you say you don't care about road noise, the squeak squeak squeak every time you go across a little bump gets annoying. I'd stay with stock type bushings for front control arms and such, not poly. No real performance advantage to poly there anyway.

SFCs: round tube is lighter, boxed hangs lower but makes for an great place to jack the car.

LCAs - you don't need rod ends but if you truly don't care about road noise they are superior for handling. In any case you don't need rod ends on both ends, poly/rod end will do. Poly end on the body, rod end on the axle.

There's nothing wrong with bolt on relocation brackets, and they're easier to install.

Torque arm: again if you truly don't care about noise, go with chassis mount. The factory tailshaft mount setup is all about noise reduction. Get longer bolts along with the torque arm, the stockers are barely long enough and I had a nut work its way loose and fall off.

Stiffer sway bars WILL make your "fun car" more fun. Strano's front bar is great. Lots of options for rear bars. STB will make little or no difference. It's a stiffener needed for cars with strut front suspension, not A Arms.

That Camaro Guy

Thanks for the replies.

I'll take a look at those AFCO shocks as I don't remember reading about them elsewhere. Has anyone here use them or the Strange?

I didn't know poly bushings were prone to squeaking, I might steer towards rubber then. I read that LCAs tend to bind while turning causing our dreaded snap oversteer and the ball ends would help eliminate that. My only concern with that is safety, I don't want to make the car unnecessarily unstable because of a mismatched part. Never read about needing longer bolts for the TA either, thanks.

Excellent replies and I'm hoping for more

Injuneer

After I did the Master Set, I had no squeaks at all. It requires a very liberal application of the poly grease that ES includes in the kit. 12 years later and the front end is still solid as a rock, and no squeaks. I particularly like ES's revised design for the vertical bushing in the lower A-arm.

koolaid_kid

A ball end or a rod end mounted to the axle will allow articulation, preventing LCA bind. There is some debate as to whether the same mounted to the body is noisier than a poly end.
Either way, they must be maintained, and do experience wear as they are a moving part.
UMI sells the longer bolts for their Torque Arms, not sure on the other brands.

That Camaro Guy

Thanks guys.

Injuneer, how well do those shocks perform for you? I've looked into the AFCO shocks and they look to be out of my price range. The strange shocks look to be within that. I would like DA shocks, but an extra $140 per shock doesn't seem worth it to me, especially for my purposes. I could probably spend $200 on generic shocks on all 4s and see an improvement on what I have anyway The QA1 SAs or Strange SAs are what I'm debating between right now.

Koolaid kid, those were the kind of answers I was looking for, thanks.

Anyone else have any input? I'd like to order these parts within the next week and installed the week after since the weather is about to warm up. I know my original post is long, but I didn't want to make 103 different threads about every little detail.

Common worn parts while doing this job? Things that tend to break during removal of old parts? I'd like to get this job done in one shot.

Injuneer

The QA1's are very good drag shocks. They have a good range of adjustment, and will produce good 60-fts. If you are looking for 1.3x 60's, the Afco's will be better. They QA1's are mediocre street shocks. They will adjust to provide a decent combination of ride and handling, but not "great". I handicapped mine with a set of Eibach Pro-kit springs intitally, and that combination was a disaster. The rear end had a "chop", like a slammed S-10 riding on the rear axle..... horrible. No adjustment helped.

Shoebox and I installed them about the same time, and his were leaking soon after the install. A buddy of mine ran the QA1's on his 9-second 30th SS convertible, and his were leaking. They can be rebuilt, but they didn't last very long in those two cases. Mine are still fine, but my car has done little more than sit in my garage and collect dust for the past 5 years.

After the problems with the QA1's my buddy got the Afco's, and got better 60-fts. They also stood up to several very hard drops from huge wheelsstands. And they stayed on the car as he took it into the low 8's, and consistant 1.30 60-fts.

That Camaro Guy

I figured out what all I'm going to go with for my setup. Kept my stage 1 budget right at $1,200 with all of the following from Spohn. Weld in SFCs, weld in LCA relo-brackets, full poly bushing set, Strange SA front and rear shocks, 300lb springs, bearings/spanner wrench, and super lube. My shocks and springs aren't in just yet, but here's what I've got so far I believe this will make for a much needed ride improvement.



Stage 2 will probably be next year with a xmember mounted torque arm, PHB, and LCAs. They'll all be adjustable and I'll have the Delsphere pivot joint on one end of all of them too. Paint is the next thing on my list after this install is done since my roof is starting to peel, even though the rest of the car looks great I know it's going to spread.

That Camaro Guy

The rest of the parts have arrived and the car just got dropped off at the shop. I'll be out of town next week and the car should be done when I get back. I'll post up my review after I get a few days worth of driving in.

That Camaro Guy

Got the car back from the shop with everything installed except the LCA brackets, they recommended another shop with a stronger welder than what they had there. I'll get around to that later this week hopefully.

Likes: I cannot say how impressed I am. The car no longer feels sloppy in the turns and tracks straight off the line. I don't feel like the car is going to twist in half. The SFCs and poly bushings make the car feel like it has a frame, love it. The shocks were no where near as bouncy as I thought they would be, it's actually a nice ride. I've got them set to 3 in the front and 5 in the back (clicks from full soft) and will be playing around with that for a while to find the right combo. The rear squats down nicely with a little pitch up in the front off the line, noticeable traction increase. There are no squeaks in the suspension, none whatsoever!

Meh: Poly trans mount transfers quite a bit of vibration, not sure if I'll change it or leave it. The shifts feel much more authoritative though, I'm liking that.

In short, I'm very very happy with this setup. It's an infinite improvement over what I had in there before.

I'd like to thank Spohn for their help and quick shipping, great people to deal with there. Thanks to everyone else for their advice and the unsung heroes of the search function

Ricardo

I have Strange doble adjustables all around and really like the adjustment capabilities. 300# springs in the front, stock springs in the back.
I used to have Bilsteins and SLP progressive springs before this, but I have become more interested in straight line performance lately.
I drive the car to the track and back home and it feels great once you learn how to dial it in.

One thing I had to deal with were the lower poly bushings on the front shocks. They were completely damaged by the weight of the front end after a few months. I made my own new ones out of DELRIN and it has worked great in my case. A little road noise but nothing to worry about when running a BORLA catback completely open.

Another thing to look into is to install a small stop on the inner fender to keep the suspension from bottoming under high loads. You loose the factory stops (included in the stock shock absorbers) when installing STRANGE shocks. There is a spot you can drill out with a 3/8" bit and install the stop from the wheel well side. It will stop the upper A Arm right on the upper ball joint.

I smashed my hooker headers once and almost ruined the inner fender covers because of this.

slomarao

i hate poly bushings. Couldnt stand my poly ta mount. I took it out the very next day i installed it.

Not sure how you live with it?