Softer springs?
#1
Softer springs?
Advice please, I've modded myself into a corner.
97 Z28, wanted to freshen up the 70K suspension. Did some other mods with it as a group, so I went from totally stock, to where it is today. Lots of bracing and firming. Too stiff, I've lived with it for a year, and can't take it anymore. Spine shattering is a term that comes to mind. Not to mention I've got my work cut out with 10 new rattles to chase.
Edelbrock weld-in connectors, & chromoly tubular K member
Koni adjustables (full soft), Strano 35/22mm hollow bars
Tubular lower trailing arms w/poly bushings, poly torque arm mount
17" Z06s 275/40
The car handles great on smooth surfaces. Unfortunately, city of indianapolis hasn't seen fit to give me any of em, and the car's so jittery over bumps that I'm not sure it's effectively any faster.
So here's where I'd like advice- I've considered the following
#1- remove the bars and put the stockers back on
#2- get softer springs. V6 model? Custom aftermarket? Just not sure where to go. A little lower is better, but not a full inch lower.
#3- ditch the Konis, and go with something like a KYB gas-a-just that's a nice soft street shock, not a performance shock.
What would you do? I've ruined a car I used to love driving.
Thanks for any advice!
97 Z28, wanted to freshen up the 70K suspension. Did some other mods with it as a group, so I went from totally stock, to where it is today. Lots of bracing and firming. Too stiff, I've lived with it for a year, and can't take it anymore. Spine shattering is a term that comes to mind. Not to mention I've got my work cut out with 10 new rattles to chase.
Edelbrock weld-in connectors, & chromoly tubular K member
Koni adjustables (full soft), Strano 35/22mm hollow bars
Tubular lower trailing arms w/poly bushings, poly torque arm mount
17" Z06s 275/40
The car handles great on smooth surfaces. Unfortunately, city of indianapolis hasn't seen fit to give me any of em, and the car's so jittery over bumps that I'm not sure it's effectively any faster.
So here's where I'd like advice- I've considered the following
#1- remove the bars and put the stockers back on
#2- get softer springs. V6 model? Custom aftermarket? Just not sure where to go. A little lower is better, but not a full inch lower.
#3- ditch the Konis, and go with something like a KYB gas-a-just that's a nice soft street shock, not a performance shock.
What would you do? I've ruined a car I used to love driving.
Thanks for any advice!
#3
Re: Softer springs?
Before you do anything start with the basics. Check the alignment if you have toe out on the street it will cause a darting feeling. If the alignment is okay I would bumpsteer the vehicle to find out if you have toe out during bump. If the bumpsteer is OK I would recommend removing the anti-roll bars. The problem with bigger bars is it will tend to make the vehicle act more like a solid axle vehicle (you loose the advantage of an independent suspension) which is just fine on smooth surfaces but horrible on rough surfaces.
#4
Re: Softer springs?
yup... I've got a 35/25 solid bar setup (suspension techniques) and the car got pretty squirrelly on very rough surfaces after it was installed. I've contemplated going to smaller bars, or getting a couple to try out since it's pretty quick to swap bars out. In my case, most of my driving is on highways and interstates so the bars aren't a big problem, but if I lived in the city I'd have already gotten rid of em.
#5
Re: Softer springs?
The car still has the stock Z28 springs, and firestone wide ovals because I could get a deal on them. But it also rides terrible if I put the stock 16" bridgestones back on. I'm comfortable with the rim/tire difference, but something is inherently wrong with my setup for city streets.
Around here, they love to fix a crack by cutting out a 6" wide groove, and re-paving just that. Every time I hit one, the front and rear independently jump 1/4 inch to the side. Sometimes same side, sometimes not. And these frickin road repairs are every 40 feet.
Maybe this is another clue. The front struts are 3/4" lowering struts. The car is stock height up front, not lowered 3/4". Verified with before/after measurements. The only added weight was the connectors, and LS1 front brakes added a few lbs. But it also got the tubular K, and off road Y pipe, and SLP headers which may have removed upward of 50-75 lbs from the nose. Everybody says my car should still be lowered, that amount of weight loss won't raise it that much. I've made sure the A arm bushings aren't bound up, it's not that.
I question how soft the konis actually are on full soft. Also heard Z28s are oversprung to start with, wonder if I've just aggravated that with the bars & konis.
Still wonder if softer springs are the correct solution, or a band aid.
I'm not sure how to measure bumpsteer, but wouldn't it be the same since my car is stock height? Or could it be anywhere with my aftermarket K member and 98 spindles? The car did go to a competent alignment shop afterward.
Is it possible I'm just a sissy
Thanks & Please keep the opinions coming
PS- Hey hotpart Brian, I've got your trailing arms on the car, they're nice pieces at the right price. Thanks!
Around here, they love to fix a crack by cutting out a 6" wide groove, and re-paving just that. Every time I hit one, the front and rear independently jump 1/4 inch to the side. Sometimes same side, sometimes not. And these frickin road repairs are every 40 feet.
Maybe this is another clue. The front struts are 3/4" lowering struts. The car is stock height up front, not lowered 3/4". Verified with before/after measurements. The only added weight was the connectors, and LS1 front brakes added a few lbs. But it also got the tubular K, and off road Y pipe, and SLP headers which may have removed upward of 50-75 lbs from the nose. Everybody says my car should still be lowered, that amount of weight loss won't raise it that much. I've made sure the A arm bushings aren't bound up, it's not that.
I question how soft the konis actually are on full soft. Also heard Z28s are oversprung to start with, wonder if I've just aggravated that with the bars & konis.
Still wonder if softer springs are the correct solution, or a band aid.
I'm not sure how to measure bumpsteer, but wouldn't it be the same since my car is stock height? Or could it be anywhere with my aftermarket K member and 98 spindles? The car did go to a competent alignment shop afterward.
Is it possible I'm just a sissy
Thanks & Please keep the opinions coming
PS- Hey hotpart Brian, I've got your trailing arms on the car, they're nice pieces at the right price. Thanks!
Last edited by Deckstripes; 04-16-2006 at 11:29 AM.
#7
Re: Softer springs?
#1. leave the springs and Koni's on!!! You can also lower with the Koni's if you want, since you brought that up.
Give Strano a call and see what he suggests, but I'd have to agree with MeanGreen. Poly bushings are most likely the culprits. Do you have them in more areas than just the LCAs?
Give Strano a call and see what he suggests, but I'd have to agree with MeanGreen. Poly bushings are most likely the culprits. Do you have them in more areas than just the LCAs?
#9
Re: Softer springs?
You didn't say what brand your LCAs are but if they are BMR, you can replace the bushings with rubber. BMR sells those bushings. They may very well fit other brands of LCAs. But first, did you properly grease all poly bushings including swaybar bushings? Did you use the correct type of grease?
I agree with Dave K about the ST bars. The ST 35 solid made the car react to every little irregularity in the pavement. I replaced it with Strano's 35 hollow and I like it much better now. I don't think those swaybars are your problem. It sounds to me like you have too much compression damping. In any case the problem is not that the springs are too stiff. But you have discovered the reason for a basic rule: do mods one at a time.
I agree with Dave K about the ST bars. The ST 35 solid made the car react to every little irregularity in the pavement. I replaced it with Strano's 35 hollow and I like it much better now. I don't think those swaybars are your problem. It sounds to me like you have too much compression damping. In any case the problem is not that the springs are too stiff. But you have discovered the reason for a basic rule: do mods one at a time.
Last edited by Bud M; 04-18-2006 at 09:28 PM.
#12
Re: Softer springs?
Originally Posted by Deckstripes
Advice please, I've modded myself into a corner.
97 Z28, wanted to freshen up the 70K suspension. Did some other mods with it as a group, so I went from totally stock, to where it is today. Lots of bracing and firming. Too stiff, I've lived with it for a year, and can't take it anymore. Spine shattering is a term that comes to mind. Not to mention I've got my work cut out with 10 new rattles to chase.
Edelbrock weld-in connectors, & chromoly tubular K member
Koni adjustables (full soft), Strano 35/22mm hollow bars
Tubular lower trailing arms w/poly bushings, poly torque arm mount
17" Z06s 275/40
The car handles great on smooth surfaces. Unfortunately, city of indianapolis hasn't seen fit to give me any of em, and the car's so jittery over bumps that I'm not sure it's effectively any faster.
So here's where I'd like advice- I've considered the following
#1- remove the bars and put the stockers back on
#2- get softer springs. V6 model? Custom aftermarket? Just not sure where to go. A little lower is better, but not a full inch lower.
#3- ditch the Konis, and go with something like a KYB gas-a-just that's a nice soft street shock, not a performance shock.
What would you do? I've ruined a car I used to love driving.
Thanks for any advice!
97 Z28, wanted to freshen up the 70K suspension. Did some other mods with it as a group, so I went from totally stock, to where it is today. Lots of bracing and firming. Too stiff, I've lived with it for a year, and can't take it anymore. Spine shattering is a term that comes to mind. Not to mention I've got my work cut out with 10 new rattles to chase.
Edelbrock weld-in connectors, & chromoly tubular K member
Koni adjustables (full soft), Strano 35/22mm hollow bars
Tubular lower trailing arms w/poly bushings, poly torque arm mount
17" Z06s 275/40
The car handles great on smooth surfaces. Unfortunately, city of indianapolis hasn't seen fit to give me any of em, and the car's so jittery over bumps that I'm not sure it's effectively any faster.
So here's where I'd like advice- I've considered the following
#1- remove the bars and put the stockers back on
#2- get softer springs. V6 model? Custom aftermarket? Just not sure where to go. A little lower is better, but not a full inch lower.
#3- ditch the Konis, and go with something like a KYB gas-a-just that's a nice soft street shock, not a performance shock.
What would you do? I've ruined a car I used to love driving.
Thanks for any advice!
Do the two easy and FREE changes first, and watch the difference. If you start just changing parts without knowing why (and you don't) things are the way they are, you won't make things better.... but worse.
#13
Re: Softer springs?
OK then, sounds like tire pressure and reinstalling the stock rear arms should come before anything else. I'll give those a shot (individually), and if the weird launch behavior returns then it's time to search out some middle ground on the trailing arm/bushing stiffness. Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate everyone's help.
I know all at once isn't the best way to go. But with 4 project cars, 2 project bikes, the usual life/job/girlfriend stuff, sometimes you gotta go for the gusto. This was just the underside of that particular upgrade. I still think the overall package is very worthwhile, it just needs a tweak or two for me. Others would probably be happy with it. Thanks again
I know all at once isn't the best way to go. But with 4 project cars, 2 project bikes, the usual life/job/girlfriend stuff, sometimes you gotta go for the gusto. This was just the underside of that particular upgrade. I still think the overall package is very worthwhile, it just needs a tweak or two for me. Others would probably be happy with it. Thanks again
#14
Re: Softer springs?
Originally Posted by Deckstripes
I know all at once isn't the best way to go. But with 4 project cars, 2 project bikes, the usual life/job/girlfriend stuff, sometimes you gotta go for the gusto. This was just the underside of that particular upgrade. I still think the overall package is very worthwhile, it just needs a tweak or two for me. Others would probably be happy with it. Thanks again
There are other reasons as well. One is fixing what needs fixed, not randomly tossing parts at a car.
#15
Re: Softer springs?
Originally Posted by 01 FS Z28
That's part of the problem. You don't ever want to do changes with "gusto", if gusto means a lot of stuff at once. One reason is just what happened here. Suddenly the shocks and bars became the culprit, with nary a mention of all the other parts. Well, what happens when you remove what you thought was the problem, and realized that wasn't the issue? Now you have to re-install and start ripping other parts off.
There are other reasons as well. One is fixing what needs fixed, not randomly tossing parts at a car.
There are other reasons as well. One is fixing what needs fixed, not randomly tossing parts at a car.
Please note that in no way have I implied the bars are bad products. Thoroughly believe a big chunk of it's improvement comes from them, and the fit is great. (the car is better in many ways) Whether or not they're ultimately right for my useage and preferences and the parts that surround them, is not related to quality and fit.