Strut Tower Braces
02-23-2007, 04:42 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 225
Please do keep in mind that SFC's and STB's do help tremendously with cowl shake, rattles, creaks groans etc. It just makes the car feel a lot tighter.
A good example is without SFC's, if you jack up one corner of the car and open a door, it will not close right because things and flexed so much. With SFC's, the door closes just fine.
A good example is without SFC's, if you jack up one corner of the car and open a door, it will not close right because things and flexed so much. With SFC's, the door closes just fine.
02-24-2007, 10:10 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: AR (PA born and fled)
Posts: 859
STBs don't do a damn thing on 4th gen cars. There was no difference before / after on my 105K+ mile 11 year old hardtop LT1 and there is no difference before / after on a friend's 6 year old 135K+ mile T-top LS1. Both of these cars have been enthusiastically driven on very rough roads their entire lives.
Sure SFCs stiffen the structure, but they're value is way, way, way overblown on 4th gen cars. Crawl under the car and take a look at those massive rockers. I should know, I've cut mine off. They're not a "must have". My doors close exactly the same with a corner jacked up as they do sitting on all four wheels.
Quality shocks make a MUCH, MUCH bigger difference in squeaks, shakes and rattles.
When you think about it, that good shocks are able to help all this makes a lot of sense.
The factory shocks are absolutely horrid. Too much compression damping and too little rebound. Anybody that would claim otherwise simply doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. The springs aren't terrible at all but they are a bit soft.
So what happens when the wheel encounters a high velocity event such as hittting a sharp bump? Well, the stiffly valved stock shocks never give the soft spring a chance to absorb the bump. The stock shock transfers that force directly to the body of the car. What happens next is the car rides like crap and, over time, develops rattles, squeaks and fender ripples.
SFCs can help this because, well, they obviously make the structure stronger. Problem with that is your suspension still sucks. The structure of the car is still getting pounded, the car still doesn't ride worth a crap and it still doesn't handle well because of the shocks.
The better shock valving found in a Koni or Bilstein (more rebound / less compression) does not allow nearly as much of the road forces to get into the body of the car. It also makes the car handle AND ride better because the valving better damps the spring motions.
Yes, the SFCs made a WORLD of difference when they were installed on my car 5 years ago. However, I still had the ridiculous factory shocks. Fast forward five years, 20K miles and probably 200 hundred autocross runs. Now I take the connectors off and the car is scarcely any different but certainly waaaaay better than when the connectors were installed.
After all that abuse, my car squeaks, rattles and shakes LESS now with the SFCs off than it did before they were installed five years ago. Why? Did the car heal itself? What changed?
The shocks.
Yes, I have some other stuff on the car, but most of that transmits more forces into the structure of the car not less. These parts should magnify the effects of removing the connectors but obviously does not.
That's why I say quality shocks make a bigger difference than SFCs. (note: HAL, KYB and QA1 are NOT in the quality category. And, at least for 4th gen cars, neither is Tokico)
Sure SFCs stiffen the structure, but they're value is way, way, way overblown on 4th gen cars. Crawl under the car and take a look at those massive rockers. I should know, I've cut mine off. They're not a "must have". My doors close exactly the same with a corner jacked up as they do sitting on all four wheels.
Quality shocks make a MUCH, MUCH bigger difference in squeaks, shakes and rattles.
When you think about it, that good shocks are able to help all this makes a lot of sense.
The factory shocks are absolutely horrid. Too much compression damping and too little rebound. Anybody that would claim otherwise simply doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. The springs aren't terrible at all but they are a bit soft.
So what happens when the wheel encounters a high velocity event such as hittting a sharp bump? Well, the stiffly valved stock shocks never give the soft spring a chance to absorb the bump. The stock shock transfers that force directly to the body of the car. What happens next is the car rides like crap and, over time, develops rattles, squeaks and fender ripples.
SFCs can help this because, well, they obviously make the structure stronger. Problem with that is your suspension still sucks. The structure of the car is still getting pounded, the car still doesn't ride worth a crap and it still doesn't handle well because of the shocks.
The better shock valving found in a Koni or Bilstein (more rebound / less compression) does not allow nearly as much of the road forces to get into the body of the car. It also makes the car handle AND ride better because the valving better damps the spring motions.
Yes, the SFCs made a WORLD of difference when they were installed on my car 5 years ago. However, I still had the ridiculous factory shocks. Fast forward five years, 20K miles and probably 200 hundred autocross runs. Now I take the connectors off and the car is scarcely any different but certainly waaaaay better than when the connectors were installed.
After all that abuse, my car squeaks, rattles and shakes LESS now with the SFCs off than it did before they were installed five years ago. Why? Did the car heal itself? What changed?
The shocks.
Yes, I have some other stuff on the car, but most of that transmits more forces into the structure of the car not less. These parts should magnify the effects of removing the connectors but obviously does not.
That's why I say quality shocks make a bigger difference than SFCs. (note: HAL, KYB and QA1 are NOT in the quality category. And, at least for 4th gen cars, neither is Tokico)
Last edited by Chewbacca; 02-24-2007 at 11:49 AM. Reason: pungchooayshun
02-24-2007, 10:27 AM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Goochland, Va.
Posts: 4,974
hmmm....I won't say anything to make you mad
but it depends on the purpose of the car....I thought i could get away with out subframes and took of the line and busted my windshield.
depends on what you do with the car.....and how much power you have
Qa1 is a great drag shock if you don't want to par 700 a pc. for shocks.....to each his own
but it depends on the purpose of the car....I thought i could get away with out subframes and took of the line and busted my windshield.
depends on what you do with the car.....and how much power you have
Qa1 is a great drag shock if you don't want to par 700 a pc. for shocks.....to each his own
02-24-2007, 11:46 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: AR (PA born and fled)
Posts: 859
*shrug* Not mad at all.
I'm just trying to save guys the money that I've spent unnecessarily.
And really, I'm speaking more about street driven cars or at least cars that see a fair bit of street duty (like mine).
If you're a drag racer and you're leaving the line hard enough to crack your windshield, you probably oughta have a cage in the thing anyway.
I'm just trying to save guys the money that I've spent unnecessarily.
And really, I'm speaking more about street driven cars or at least cars that see a fair bit of street duty (like mine).
If you're a drag racer and you're leaving the line hard enough to crack your windshield, you probably oughta have a cage in the thing anyway.
02-24-2007, 02:15 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 225
Chewbacca: if your doors open and close properly with the car lifted from one corner, your car was made on a better day the most of the 4th gens we have worked on. We have not encountered one yet that didn't twist/bend enough when jacked that the doors would close properly when jacked. Hell, many creak and groan when you drive over the end of a driveway curb because it is flexing so much!
The factory lift points are extremely weak as well. I can't tell you how many are dented in just from using jacks on them. This is not a strong structure and definitely can benefit from reinforcement.
STB's are more subjective but many people including myself have noticed less cowl shake with them installed. We used them on lots of cars that already had Bilsteins, Konis etc so I know it was over and above shocks (which I 100% agree with you in a must have mod because the factory ones SUCK)
No, neither may improve your handling but any automaker or engineer is going to tell you that a stiffer/reinforced body structure does wonders for ride quality, noises, vibrations etc. The fbodies are very weak and both of these modifiations help to improve that and in my opinion, they are a worth while modification for those people that want to address these problems.
The factory lift points are extremely weak as well. I can't tell you how many are dented in just from using jacks on them. This is not a strong structure and definitely can benefit from reinforcement.
STB's are more subjective but many people including myself have noticed less cowl shake with them installed. We used them on lots of cars that already had Bilsteins, Konis etc so I know it was over and above shocks (which I 100% agree with you in a must have mod because the factory ones SUCK)
No, neither may improve your handling but any automaker or engineer is going to tell you that a stiffer/reinforced body structure does wonders for ride quality, noises, vibrations etc. The fbodies are very weak and both of these modifiations help to improve that and in my opinion, they are a worth while modification for those people that want to address these problems.
02-24-2007, 05:04 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: AR (PA born and fled)
Posts: 859
When I cut off my SFCs there was zero increase in squeaks or rattles. Yet as I said, despite the additional mileage and punishment, the car is MUCH quieter now than when the SFCs were installed. The only real difference that can explain this is shocks.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the SFCs don't make the structure stronger. I'm saying that SFCs and STBs are not as important on these cars as they were on the 3rd gens and Fox body Mustangs. If you want to get rid of the squeaks and rattles, look at the shocks first. The car will handle better and ride better to boot.
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