tunnel brace?
06-27-2005, 09:36 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,950
Re: tunnel brace?
GM usually doesn't add parts to the car that aren't needed. Sure you could run without it, but then you'll be posting asking why your car rattles. 
Take the car down to an exhaust shop and have the exhaust "tweaked" to keep from hitting the support plate.
Take the car down to an exhaust shop and have the exhaust "tweaked" to keep from hitting the support plate.
06-28-2005, 12:13 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: overland park, ks
Posts: 11
Re: tunnel brace?
Originally Posted by Camarocracy
Just get an aftermarket one [bmr, spohn] that will bolt in place of the factory one. They are stronger, are designed for larger y-pipes, and look better.
best way to do it... or their is always another fix
take the exhaust all the way off
06-29-2005, 06:52 PM
#8
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern IL
Posts: 1,061
Re: tunnel brace?
I Beat on mine a little bit with a sledge hammer, then added spacers between it and the body to lower it a little more. Right now I have no exhaust at all on the car though, and am going to be running true duals, so i hope i dont have problems with it again.
06-29-2005, 08:13 PM
#9
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: FTW, TX
Posts: 4,508
Re: tunnel brace?
Originally Posted by OBE1 95Z28
GM usually doesn't add parts to the car that aren't needed. Sure you could run without it, but then you'll be posting asking why your car rattles. Take the car down to an exhaust shop and have the exhaust "tweaked" to keep from hitting the support plate.
Take the car down to an exhaust shop and have the exhaust "tweaked" to keep from hitting the support plate.Even w/out it you still have the much beefier trans support connecting the tunnel.
06-29-2005, 10:05 PM
#11
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 576
Re: tunnel brace?
Originally Posted by TCredTA95
Does it hurt to take my tunnel brace off? Its rubbing on my exhaust pipe.
It helps make the drive shaft tunnel act more like a tube than a "C" channel.
If you take it off you will loose stiffness.
Can you do it, yes. Will you feel the difference, maybe not. Will people tell you it is ok to take it off, yes.
Here is a test for you, get a toilet paper tube. Gently try to bend it, and feel the stiffness. Now take a sharp knife and split the tube long ways. With the split pointing towards the floor bend both ends up. It will be alot more flexiable than it was. Same thing with the brace. Operates in tension to stiffen the drive shaft tunnel.
Now you have the info, make up your own mind.
Z28
06-29-2005, 10:57 PM
#12
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: FTW, TX
Posts: 4,508
Re: tunnel brace?
And explain when the car is going to have this kind of stress in that area and how is the trans support not going to bend also?
Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move).
The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact.
As for the tunnel flaring out concept, what weight is on it to cause that? Is the shifter really that heavy? But wait, even if it was its before the trans brace so that would be the stress point. There is no weight or force exerted on the top of the tunnel to cause it to flex out. Especially as far back as the brace is located. Even the torque arm puts force on the trans tail which puts it on the trans support not the brace.
So yes, the brace is superfluous. 4th gens are the only f-bodies I know that have them. I know for a fact 1st and 2nd gens don't and I'm pretty sure 3rd gens don't and they're all unibody also. So will having the brace removed hurt anything? How many old Camaros and other makes and models of cars are being driven w/out one?
Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move).
The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact.
As for the tunnel flaring out concept, what weight is on it to cause that? Is the shifter really that heavy? But wait, even if it was its before the trans brace so that would be the stress point. There is no weight or force exerted on the top of the tunnel to cause it to flex out. Especially as far back as the brace is located. Even the torque arm puts force on the trans tail which puts it on the trans support not the brace.
So yes, the brace is superfluous. 4th gens are the only f-bodies I know that have them. I know for a fact 1st and 2nd gens don't and I'm pretty sure 3rd gens don't and they're all unibody also. So will having the brace removed hurt anything? How many old Camaros and other makes and models of cars are being driven w/out one?
Last edited by Greed4Speed; 06-29-2005 at 11:18 PM.
06-30-2005, 10:04 AM
#13
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 576
Re: tunnel brace?
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]And explain when the car is going to have this kind of stress in that area and how is the trans support not going to bend also? QUOTE]
This stress will happen any time the road pushes up on either the front or rear of a car, ever heard of a bump?
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed] Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move)./QUOTE]
Wipe you *** somemore and get another toilet paper tube. I never said twist the tube I said bend it. The brace operates in tension to stop bending not twisting.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact./QUOTE]
Never said that it would.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]As for the tunnel flaring out concept, what weight is on it to cause that? Is the shifter really that heavy? But wait, even if it was its before the trans brace so that would be the stress point. There is no weight or force exerted on the top of the tunnel to cause it to flex out. Especially as far back as the brace is located. Even the torque arm puts force on the trans tail which puts it on the trans support not the brace./QUOTE]
Any time the car is pushed up or down by the road at the wheels. You are missing the whole point.
How many old camaros are flexiable flyers, sell your 4th gen if you are so against improvements.
You have no understanding of the strength issues of the brace. I gave an accurate description of the loading on the brace. For the weight it adds it gives a great deal of strength.
You have to empty your cup to learn Grasshopper.
Z28
This stress will happen any time the road pushes up on either the front or rear of a car, ever heard of a bump?
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed] Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move)./QUOTE]
Wipe you *** somemore and get another toilet paper tube. I never said twist the tube I said bend it. The brace operates in tension to stop bending not twisting.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact./QUOTE]
Never said that it would.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]As for the tunnel flaring out concept, what weight is on it to cause that? Is the shifter really that heavy? But wait, even if it was its before the trans brace so that would be the stress point. There is no weight or force exerted on the top of the tunnel to cause it to flex out. Especially as far back as the brace is located. Even the torque arm puts force on the trans tail which puts it on the trans support not the brace./QUOTE]
Any time the car is pushed up or down by the road at the wheels. You are missing the whole point.
Originally Posted by Greed4Speed
So yes, the brace is superfluous. 4th gens are the only f-bodies I know that have them. I know for a fact 1st and 2nd gens don't and I'm pretty sure 3rd gens don't and they're all unibody also. So will having the brace removed hurt anything? How many old Camaros and other makes and models of cars are being driven w/out one?
You have no understanding of the strength issues of the brace. I gave an accurate description of the loading on the brace. For the weight it adds it gives a great deal of strength.
You have to empty your cup to learn Grasshopper.
Z28
Last edited by Z28barnett; 06-30-2005 at 10:09 AM.
06-30-2005, 10:46 AM
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: FTW, TX
Posts: 4,508
Re: tunnel brace?
[QUOTE=Z28barnett][QUOTE=Greed4Speed]And explain when the car is going to have this kind of stress in that area and how is the trans support not going to bend also? QUOTE]
This stress will happen any time the road pushes up on either the front or rear of a car, ever heard of a bump?
That would not cause an arch (which the tunnel is) to bend that easily. Again, it is still braced by the trans brace which is stronger than the tunnel brace.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed] Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move)./QUOTE]
Wipe you *** somemore and get another toilet paper tube. I never said twist the tube I said bend it. The brace operates in tension to stop bending not twisting.
Raally mature, I already see your degree of logic from this statement and the reason why you can not comprehend.
Twisting is what chassis do when they flex. They don't bend down the middle. The ground contact is a 4 corners causing a twisting motion. The engine torques to one side and the power goes predominately to one side. Again more twist.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact./QUOTE]
Never said that it would.
Since the brace is lateral, this is the force that it would brace against.
Take you own advise and think outside of your little box or tp roll as the case may be.
This stress will happen any time the road pushes up on either the front or rear of a car, ever heard of a bump?
That would not cause an arch (which the tunnel is) to bend that easily. Again, it is still braced by the trans brace which is stronger than the tunnel brace.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed] Do your same test, but put a thin strip of cardboard you cut off across as a brace. See how easily it still twists (which is how that area will move)./QUOTE]
Wipe you *** somemore and get another toilet paper tube. I never said twist the tube I said bend it. The brace operates in tension to stop bending not twisting.
Raally mature, I already see your degree of logic from this statement and the reason why you can not comprehend.
Twisting is what chassis do when they flex. They don't bend down the middle. The ground contact is a 4 corners causing a twisting motion. The engine torques to one side and the power goes predominately to one side. Again more twist.
[QUOTE=Greed4Speed]The tunnel isn't going to receive any lateral force (the only force that brace would work againt) unless you receive a side impact./QUOTE]
Never said that it would.
Since the brace is lateral, this is the force that it would brace against.
Originally Posted by Greed4Speed
As for the tunnel flaring out concept, what weight is on it to cause that? Is the shifter really that heavy? But wait, even if it was its before the trans brace so that would be the stress point. There is no weight or force exerted on the top of the tunnel to cause it to flex out. Especially as far back as the brace is located. Even the torque arm puts force on the trans tail which puts it on the trans support not the brace./QUOTE]
Any time the car is pushed up or down by the road at the wheels. You are missing the whole point.
Again, twisting (which that brace will do NOTHING for) and the trans brace. Don't you think the roof would bend from this supposed longitudinal flexing also? Because it would have to, but it's designed to withstand it. Otherwise we'd all have misaligned t-tops or ripples in the roof. Look at convertibles. They're braced more heavily longitudenally to counteract this kind of motion.
How many old camaros are flexiable flyers, sell your 4th gen if you are so against improvements.
Again a sage statement by an obvious intellectual giant. You need to look around more. Have you any f-body experience outside of your early 4th gen? I do.
The fact is these other models didn't have any issues and 3rd gens are quite popular for track events. 1st and 2nd gens were even sponsored by GM to run track events. 2nd gens are extremely popular on dort tracks and I guarantee if longitudinal flex was as detrimental to a unibody as you claim it would show up in this venue very quickly. Again, its called a trans brace and it does EVERYTHING the tunnel brace will do plus gives a place to mount the trans.
You have no understanding of the strength issues of the brace. I gave an accurate description of the loading on the brace. For the weight it adds it gives a great deal of strength.
Have you no understanding of the dynamics of a 4 wheel unibody chassis? You gave reasons why you THINK the brace is there, and thats it.
You have to empty your cup to learn Grasshopper.
Z28
Any time the car is pushed up or down by the road at the wheels. You are missing the whole point.
Again, twisting (which that brace will do NOTHING for) and the trans brace. Don't you think the roof would bend from this supposed longitudinal flexing also? Because it would have to, but it's designed to withstand it. Otherwise we'd all have misaligned t-tops or ripples in the roof. Look at convertibles. They're braced more heavily longitudenally to counteract this kind of motion.
How many old camaros are flexiable flyers, sell your 4th gen if you are so against improvements.
Again a sage statement by an obvious intellectual giant. You need to look around more. Have you any f-body experience outside of your early 4th gen? I do.
The fact is these other models didn't have any issues and 3rd gens are quite popular for track events. 1st and 2nd gens were even sponsored by GM to run track events. 2nd gens are extremely popular on dort tracks and I guarantee if longitudinal flex was as detrimental to a unibody as you claim it would show up in this venue very quickly. Again, its called a trans brace and it does EVERYTHING the tunnel brace will do plus gives a place to mount the trans.
You have no understanding of the strength issues of the brace. I gave an accurate description of the loading on the brace. For the weight it adds it gives a great deal of strength.
Have you no understanding of the dynamics of a 4 wheel unibody chassis? You gave reasons why you THINK the brace is there, and thats it.
You have to empty your cup to learn Grasshopper.
Z28
Last edited by Greed4Speed; 06-30-2005 at 10:50 AM.
06-30-2005, 11:48 AM
#15
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,834
Re: tunnel brace?
I took mine off adn beat it w/ a sludge hammer in the middle to it bends down and has room for my 3" catback. The peice of metal isnt very strong to begin with so I cant see how it does much at all. I can bend it w/ my hands.