takeoffeh

What is it with the ride quality on 3rd gens? Mine is a base model and I replaced the rear springs/shocks with Zenn progressive 1in. drop springs, and KYB GR2 shocks. Both told me "beter ride and good handling". The front is still old, but even little bumps that don't even work the suspension are felt as if the car has solid springs and steel control-arm bushings. The body just doesn't feel insulated from the road. When I drive other cars, (even a Cavalier), I'm amazed how much smoother they take the same bumps. Any info on how to refine the ride?

teke184

yeah.....drive a different car.

smoother generally means softer...softer means less responsive...less responsive means....not a sports car.

smooth ride...buy a cadillac
handling....a sports car.

drop springs and tighter shocks are not going to make the car ride smoother.

takeoffeh

I should've seen this answer coming a mile away. I agree with you ...to a point. The problem is, newer Caddy's ride good AND handle! My friends '99 Vette is firm, but it at least acts like there's a suspension under it. The car is tight. All suspensions use a shock, spring, and control arms. So, if a late 'Vette can handle good and ride decent, so can these. My experience with these cars is (really hear me here)...when rolling over little bumps that do not even work the suspension, the harshnes is transmitted to the pass compartment as if it has aluminum tires. When it does go over real bumps, something feels "inprecise", the car has an "after-shudder" as if something shakes under the car just after hitting a bump. I've talked to other owners of these cars and they agree. I'm looking for an expert that I should be able to reach on a forum like this as to exactly what is going on. If not...'87 Camaro for sale...

takeoffeh

You are right, by the way, TEKE184 about the spring/shock thing. I'm replacing the Zenn springs with base model stockers, but keep the KYB GR2's. If that's not enough, I'll ask about a better shock. Thanks.

greenmachinedriver

have you checked things like tie rods, pitman, idler, steering box, controll arm bushings. strut mounts? if any of thease things had play it would cause the harsh and inprecise feeling you describe. the new caddys that handle good and ride well use a compleetly different suspensin than your 87. your freinds vett is also compleetly different. i think that you are expecting alot from a suspensin that was designed in the early 80s.

takeoffeh

I hear ya, but unless it's just me, even the 1st and 2nd gens rode pretty well. The 3rd gen was supposed to be more refined than the earlier cars. Again, it could be because I'm in it all the time I'm too tuned in to every little thing about the car. The front bushings aren't shot, (but worn), but if it IS metal on metal, then ok, it'll transmit every little crack in the road. It does need tie rods and ball joints, but I don't see how they would affect ride quality. When I said somethings "inprecise", I meant in the millisec after a bump, the rear of the car has a shake to it. And when going over bumpy terrain, the rear does a "dance". Could that shudder be the unibody in desparate need of frame connectors?
Rear susp: Zenn 1.5 in lowering springs, KYB GR2's, UMI lwr arms w/poly bushings, Edelbrock adj panhard bar (cause for some wacky reason my rear end was 1in. out!!!)

greenmachinedriver

sounds like you may need new sway bar bushings, you may like the changes that come from subframe conectors or mabey a rear panhard bar. i had a third gen a while back and remember that it did not handle well or ride well. but then again it had seen its better days.

takeoffeh

Yeah, I'm gonna replace the whole front-end too, and the motor mounts while the front arms are off. I'm gonna use base v-8 springs, and I have the KYB-gr2 struts. Before I put them on, is there a better choice if I'm looking for ride comfort?

Greed4Speed

The problem I see here is that you are comparing a base model performance car that is at least 15 years old with cars that costs ~20K+ more new than the last f-bodies did. Their whole suspension is upgraded compared to yours and mine for that matter. Even the most recent Camaro suspension was basicly the same that was ran on the first 3rd gens back in the early 80s. Lets face it, our ride is based on an old design.

This is like comparing the ride of an 80's Civic to an new Acura TL and S2000 and wanting to Civic to ride as smooth and yet handle as well.


So how do you refine your ride? Have you checked the state of your body and suspension bushings? That would be the first place I'd start on a car that old. Tire choice and pressure used in them also makes a difference on how a car feels and rides.

takeoffeh

I understand. I was looking at it from the standpoint of if every (coil-spring) suspension uses a spring, shock, and control arm, then the newer cars must benefit from an optimal (expensive) spring/shock combo, meaning there's one for most any car. I drive my '87 over 700 mi a week, and I must admit after not driving it for a couple of days, it doesn't feel so bad driving it again. I think alot of it is when you drive ANY car ALL the time, you notice every little rattle and squeak. It's been reliable as hell, so I can't complain there.
Just to mention, I drove my dad's '03 Cavalier the other day, and I noticed it takes a lot of bumps (like the rumble strips before some traffic signals on hiways) very well, very isolated from the pass compartment. His Saturn though, has the "aluminum tire" effect. My Camaro seems like the middle of the two. I think tire type has alot to do with it too.
By the way, my '87 has 195/75-14 Goodyear tourings up front,
and 245/60-15 Yokohama "AR's" out back.

Greed4Speed

The C5, newer Caddys, and Cavalier don't have a solid 3rd member. They're all IRS or FWD and their geometry is totally different eventhough they have coil on shock or coil on strut suspensions.

That said, yes you can go to better shocks and springs. The GR-2 is a stock replacement shock. I put them on my wife's Gran Am w/stock springs and they made the ride a little more firm but you could also feel the road more. Do you know the spring rates of those springs you have? I doubt Zen springs are optimum and I guarantee the KYB's are not designed to be used with shorter stiffer springs. You could also be experiencing the Eibach Sportline effect where there isn't enough rear spring rate for the drop and when you hit bumps you're hitting your bump stops. Also how much pressure do you run in your tires? I'd suggest talking to Strano before throwing more miney into another set of springs and shocks.

takeoffeh

You're right on about the bumpstops being very close. Yes, the car did bottom on significant bumps, I was also complaining about those little bumps that do not even make the suspension travel. Zenn didn't have the rates for the springs but says they're a little stiffer than z28 springs. GM sure didn't design much suspension travel into these cars. It seems that to get a more decent ride, the rear has to be up a little high, oh well, that's the way it'll be then. I'm gonna see how base model springs fare with the KYB's. I think that'll take care of it. These cars handle so well anyway, and I feel that the soft spring with the KYB's and rear sway bar from an '88 Formula, it'll handle plenty for me.

Chewbacca

Wow, all kinds of off base information in here. Let me see if I can help...

3rd gens suffer from stiction in the modified strut arrangement (it's not a true Mac strut since the spring is inboard). This causes the car to crash over sharp edged bumps.

And it never will feel as insulated as other cars. Partly because of the front suspension and partly because, let's face it, 3rd gens (and really to some extent even 4th gens) were tin cans even when new. Yes, I've owned a new 3rd gen.

Better struts would help. I don't know the rate of those springs but I'd never run a progressive myself. Stock springs would ride better.

Totally different front ends. If anything, the double A arm front suspension of those cars is more similar to that of a 4th gen (I owned a 1st gen at one time as well)

Don't know about that. With the 3rd gen, they engineered the Z28's suspension first and then detuned it for lesser models.

Swaybar bushings have nothing to do with the ride.

Konis or Bilsteins.

Once again, the very nature of that modified strut arrangement is working against you here with regard to ride. More suspension travel with the stock springs combined with better struts will go a long way towards helping that though. Call Sam and tell him what you want from the car.

The 4th gen has a RADICALLy different front suspension than the 3rd gen. That front suspension design is a large reason why the newer car rides so much better.

greenmachinedriver

sway bar busing dont effect the way a car rides if you only drive straight.
most of us have to take a corner from time to time. go unhook your swaybar and tell me it does not drive alot differnt.

Chewbacca

You're talking about handling in that case, not ride quality.